Author Topic: Are the Old Ones also locked out?  (Read 8077 times)

Offline Quantus

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Re: Are the Old Ones also locked out?
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2018, 09:12:33 PM »
exactly though, I think the only thing that can truly prevent their return is total Oblivion. The Oblivion war was more or less orchestrated by the Original Merlin if he's responsible for the Archive and therefore her venators. The war was started by us.
Ah, ok, that makes way more sense than what you first said, which was that the Oblivion War would somewhat LEAD to the Outsiders return/awakening as opposed to preventing it.


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Not sure why that would be? An you notice, all Outsiders are getting in specifically by invitation via mortal, even if that's a subconscious invitation to slowly replace them. They aren't smashing anything at this point btw, willing though they may be, they so far just can't. Cosmic Law mayhaps...
As the theory goes: The Oblivion War works only on the premise that the targeted Creatures REQUIRE a connection to Mortal awareness in order to manifest in the Mortal World, or else they have no grip on the reality and are left floating in the distant unconnected reaches of the NN.  This makes fine sense for all the NN demons etc that keep being mentioned as having varying degrees of interest in the Mortal World.  It makes less sense in the case of the Outsiders because a)Outside and Oblivion are different things, and B) Outsiders dont /require/ a connection to Mortal Awareness since they are currently attempting to get in via other means.  The fact that there is a constant conflict at the Outer Gates being waged unknown to mortal race would strongly indicate that they do not have the same requirement for Mortal Awareness that NN natives do.  So the theory goes, anyway.
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Offline jonas

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Re: Are the Old Ones also locked out?
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2018, 10:48:43 PM »
Ah, ok, that makes way more sense than what you first said, which was that the Oblivion War would somewhat LEAD to the Outsiders return/awakening as opposed to preventing it.

As the theory goes: The Oblivion War works only on the premise that the targeted Creatures REQUIRE a connection to Mortal awareness in order to manifest in the Mortal World, or else they have no grip on the reality and are left floating in the distant unconnected reaches of the NN.  This makes fine sense for all the NN demons etc that keep being mentioned as having varying degrees of interest in the Mortal World.  It makes less sense in the case of the Outsiders because a)Outside and Oblivion are different things, and B) Outsiders dont /require/ a connection to Mortal Awareness since they are currently attempting to get in via other means.  The fact that there is a constant conflict at the Outer Gates being waged unknown to mortal race would strongly indicate that they do not have the same requirement for Mortal Awareness that NN natives do.  So the theory goes, anyway.
Ah... let me attempt to smash this one. Outsiders... look at Fearbringer, the idea behind him has not, and maybe cannot be forgotten by humans until humans no longer have a concept of fear, so, fear will always have a representation in reality. The same thing with Hwwbh, he's actually a psychological part of humanity,(i'd have to find the post on the jbit that has the right link to a really good article on it) the 'demon' you can't quite look at, that which stalks us all, Death.
To be expelled from reality in my opinion simply means you have no creation oomph, no payment on Rent or Purchase in the positive. Maybe even YOU died, even if your idea did not, in which case, as I suspect, Outsiders are the versions of Idea's/god avatars who died, maybe even the originals, and those who were intentionally left out of the little playground our God made.  BUT, whom are not forgotten, whom we actually put in our own mythology for their deaths, who we also remember are not exactly all good with reality or humanity,  Some of which only existed perhaps before reality truly began.
Look next at the Lord of Slowest Terror, Time, Chronos, whatever you wanna call him. His being dead/torn apart is kinda necessary for reality because of space-time. That's one of the clue's left for us, Outsiders get in, everything Stops. Because Time is no longer in pieces?
So this could also explain, in part, why the Outsiders look different trying to get back into any specific reality but are at the upper Echelon's all connected, they are from before the concept of reality, and we, Humanity, have had those concepts of before existence for quite awhile too, we just have names and identities attached to them. But if those identities are already dead but not forgotten? Outsiders and the need for Oblivion wars...
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Offline Quantus

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Re: Are the Old Ones also locked out?
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2018, 11:05:22 AM »
Ah... let me attempt to smash this one. Outsiders... look at Fearbringer, the idea behind him has not, and maybe cannot be forgotten by humans until humans no longer have a concept of fear, so, fear will always have a representation in reality. The same thing with Hwwbh, he's actually a psychological part of humanity,(i'd have to find the post on the jbit that has the right link to a really good article on it) the 'demon' you can't quite look at, that which stalks us all, Death.
To be expelled from reality in my opinion simply means you have no creation oomph, no payment on Rent or Purchase in the positive. Maybe even YOU died, even if your idea did not, in which case, as I suspect, Outsiders are the versions of Idea's/god avatars who died, maybe even the originals, and those who were intentionally left out of the little playground our God made.  BUT, whom are not forgotten, whom we actually put in our own mythology for their deaths, who we also remember are not exactly all good with reality or humanity,  Some of which only existed perhaps before reality truly began.
Look next at the Lord of Slowest Terror, Time, Chronos, whatever you wanna call him. His being dead/torn apart is kinda necessary for reality because of space-time. That's one of the clue's left for us, Outsiders get in, everything Stops. Because Time is no longer in pieces?
So this could also explain, in part, why the Outsiders look different trying to get back into any specific reality but are at the upper Echelon's all connected, they are from before the concept of reality, and we, Humanity, have had those concepts of before existence for quite awhile too, we just have names and identities attached to them. But if those identities are already dead but not forgotten? Outsiders and the need for Oblivion wars...
That could work, it doesnt contract anything we know as fact, but I also see almost no in-world support for it.
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Offline jonas

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Re: Are the Old Ones also locked out?
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2018, 03:15:32 PM »
That could work, it doesnt contract anything we know as fact, but I also see almost no in-world support for it.
Matter of deduction, look for Lachesis and you find her in the power of wizards and wizardry, Look for Nemesis the Greek Goddess whom apparently hunts all fae, or all reality depending on context, and you find her scales being balanced by the courts and her aspect of Judgement taken by Mab when needed... So parts of her exist in the courts lending credence to her being taken by the stone table, which then lends it to the idea above that Dead but not forgotten matters(dude, you know Mexican mythos or the day of the dead/land of the remembered?) Let's see, Chronos is also known for being dead, and he's apparently the captain in charge of hwwbh being the slowest terror humans will ever know and all. I could make more connections but really, Nemesis should really be enough.
Why she's not part of reality even makes sense, she was the chooser of fate, to defy fate, to make a choice in the face of it is Hubris in the face of the Gods and worthy of destruction... and Marcone showed exactly that making a free will choice is Hubris to fate based beings, and then in direct contention with TWG's own designs for creation. Lachesis... she chose not only for herself but for the Gods themselves, something hinted at in Mortal Magic's ability to screw with the fae Alloy and let Nemesis find purchase. They took her power to choose and gave it to the Druids, Celtic magic users whom were subsequently wiped out by Rome but could whip up firestorms and other fantastic things... BUT could NOT effect fate..(Irish based mythos... evolved into fae too) Now Wizards can though. The took her power and rebalanced it in the human equation, and the only thing that makes it viable is not breaking the Laws designed to keep free will intact. Any breaking of these laws would, per PG, tend to make you a mirror for Nemesis herself then. And using it to cause fear while taking free will would sync you up pretty nicely to Fearbringer wouldn't it? hence the goal of N in PG, and Mab's counter move by having the fetch eat up Molly's N-fected soul parts.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 03:18:12 PM by jonas »
Quote from: A. Lanning
I'm sorry, My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.
Quote from: C Chaplin
...And so as long as men die, Liberty will never perish.