Are the Old Ones also locked out?

[groinkick]

I get the impression from the books that the Old Ones are not locked out with the Outsiders.  Is that wrong or what?  If they aren't locked out the same as the Outsiders, why is that?  I'm curious about the relationship they have.... 

[Slowpool]

I get the impression from the books that the Old Ones are not locked out with the Outsiders.  Is that wrong or what?  If they aren't locked out the same as the Outsiders, why is that?  I'm curious about the relationship they have....

  I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the only real info we have on them comes from Harry earlier in the series, and Carlos in Cold Case.  Harry implied that the Outsiders were servants of the Old Ones, or something along those lines.  Or at least that the Walkers were knights of their kind.  Carlos seems to think they're one and the same, and that the Old Ones are just who happen to be trapped on Earth instead of Outside.

[Zohak]

According to lovecraft the family tree would go like this
 
https://www.yog-sothoth.com/wiki/index.php/Azathoth_Family_Tree

https://i.imgur.com/bmwHo.jpg

Exploring the Cthulhu Mythos Playlist

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-aprpylMuCdnaFEYwTzAobqUZGxS1D5p

timeline
https://www.yog-sothoth.com/wiki/index.php/Cthulhu_Mythos_Timeline

[Quantus]

AFAIK the Old Ones are a type or group of Outsiders, and as far as Outsiders in the DV go they are all either Locked outside the Outer Gates and trying to break/sneak back in, or else are Imprisoned somewhere on Earth.  The imprisoned ones are also called Sleepers, and would include the ever-famous Cthulu. 

[jonas]

AFAIK the Old Ones are a type or group of Outsiders, and as far as Outsiders in the DV go they are all either Locked outside the Outer Gates and trying to break/sneak back in, or else are Imprisoned somewhere on Earth.  The imprisoned ones are also called Sleepers, and would include the ever-famous Cthulu.

DR holds the sleepers to be awoke according to Maeve's gleeful villainy plan spill.... I could see them being the Old Ones. As they actually do exist in reality, but are just forced out by, more or less, a wormhole/pocketdimension existence.

[Quantus]

DR holds the sleepers to be awoke according to Maeve's gleeful villainy plan spill.... I could see them being the Old Ones. As they actually do exist in reality, but are just forced out by, more or less, a wormhole/pocketdimension existence.

Theres also the more traditional Giant Monster under the Sea type of Sleeper, according the Carlos in Cold Case, not just the ones in DR

[Slowpool]

Theres also the more traditional Giant Monster under the Sea type of Sleeper, according the Carlos in Cold Case, not just the ones in DR

It's MASSIVELY implied (as I read it) that the Sleeper Carlos mentions is supposed to be Cthulhu, specifically. 

[Quantus]

It's MASSIVELY implied (as I read it) that the Sleeper Carlos mentions is supposed to be Cthulhu, specifically.

Agreed, though I did think that Sleepers was mentioned in the plural, and my vague understanding of Lovecraftian mythos is that there were more than just him down there?

[Zohak]

More on the Nature of Cthulhu and its Spawn
https://lovecraftianscience.wordpress.com/2015/08/16/more-on-the-nature-of-cthulhu-and-its-spawn/

In Lovecraft’s original “family tree of the Old Ones” the only cited offspring of Cthulhu is Shaurash-ho and based on the lineage, this offspring was created through asexual reproduction. However, according to Carter’s research into the Ponape Scriptures there was a sexual union, genetic or otherwise, between Cthulhu and an entity named Idh-Yaa. This sexual union occurred on, in or around Xoth, a green star located in the constellation of Taurus. In fact Cthulhu and its Spawn are said to have originated from Xoth. Again, this information is provided in the Ponape Scriptures as cited by Carter and not in the Black Book, which was cited by Lovecraft.

The Architecture of R’lyeh
https://lovecraftianscience.wordpress.com/2014/02/17/the-architecture-of-rlyeh/
https://lovecraftianscience.wordpress.com/tag/rlyeh/

[kazimmoinuddin]

Walkers, outsiders, old ones and sleepers are what demonreach was built to truly contain. From the sound of it, the oblivion war will either wake the sleepers or even let in the bad guys from beyond the gate. I could see the prison then being used to contain those entities so no longer a threat.

[Quantus]

Walkers, outsiders, old ones and sleepers are what demonreach was built to truly contain. From the sound of it, the oblivion war will either wake the sleepers or even let in the bad guys from beyond the gate. I could see the prison then being used to contain those entities so no longer a threat.

Where do you get that part?  By all accounts it's either uninvolved with the Outsider side of things or else would be doing the exact opposite.

[jonas]

Where do you get that part?  By all accounts it's either uninvolved with the Outsider side of things or else would be doing the exact opposite.

Now, I've never thought it was entirely uninvolved... I see it as these Old Gods who are slowly being phased out of reality attempting to find new purchase here under a new identity. They are dead but as long as they are not forgotten entirely they can attempt a breach under new identity and power, same Old consciousness though.

[Quantus]

Now, I've never thought it was entirely uninvolved... I see it as these Old Gods who are slowly being phased out of reality attempting to find new purchase here under a new identity. They are dead but as long as they are not forgotten entirely they can attempt a breach under new identity and power, same Old consciousness though.

So how then does that Oblivion War actually benefit their efforts to get back in, or wake them?  If they are affected by threat of Oblivion* then it would be a thing actively working to prevent their return, not facilitate it. 


*The other possibility being that the Oblivion War only targets creatures native to the NeverNever who still have to play by the rules, but not true Outsiders that seem equally willing to just smash there way in as to be Known/Invited by the inside residents.

[jonas]

So how then does that Oblivion War actually benefit their efforts to get back in, or wake them?  If they are affected by threat of Oblivion* then it would be a thing actively working to prevent their return, not facilitate it. 

exactly though, I think the only thing that can truly prevent their return is total Oblivion. The Oblivion war was more or less orchestrated by the Original Merlin if he's responsible for the Archive and therefore her venators. The war was started by us.

*The other possibility being that the Oblivion War only targets creatures native to the NeverNever who still have to play by the rules, but not true Outsiders that seem equally willing to just smash there way in as to be Known/Invited by the inside residents.

Not sure why that would be? An you notice, all Outsiders are getting in specifically by invitation via mortal, even if that's a subconscious invitation to slowly replace them. They aren't smashing anything at this point btw, willing though they may be, they so far just can't. Cosmic Law mayhaps...

[kazimmoinuddin]

While demonreach is an epic prison, I have to think there is an additional purpose for the system.
Those epic beings currently contained in the world would be targets to freed. While bad, they could then be sent into the Well. For more secure imprisonment, enduring less influence on the world.