Author Topic: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler  (Read 6918 times)

Offline SerScot

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I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« on: June 01, 2018, 06:01:16 PM »
Wouldn’t Bob know that Justin was really Kemmler?
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

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Offline Kindler

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2018, 06:04:50 PM »
Seems a reasonable assumption. He had all the information about him, the same that the White Council had, which I'm positive includes a portrait, or a physical description. This is assuming that locking away Big Bad Bob also locked away his direct recollection of what Kemmler looked like.

Then again, it's possible that Corpsetaker learned her little trick from Big Kemmler, and he switched with Justin when it became clear he was going to lose to the White Council. The rest of his life was an act—and it certainly looks like Justin went bad after his encounter with him.

Offline SerScot

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2018, 06:13:49 PM »
Seems a reasonable assumption. He had all the information about him, the same that the White Council had, which I'm positive includes a portrait, or a physical description. This is assuming that locking away Big Bad Bob also locked away his direct recollection of what Kemmler looked like.

Then again, it's possible that Corpsetaker learned her little trick from Big Kemmler, and he switched with Justin when it became clear he was going to lose to the White Council. The rest of his life was an act—and it certainly looks like Justin went bad after his encounter with him.

Wouldn’t it be strange for Kemmler, who devoted his wizard length life to necromancy, to suddenly surrender that practice.  Bob would have noticed.
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline Kindler

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2018, 07:32:56 PM »
I don't think it's likely at all, but it's possible that his plans changed. I haven't read the Luccio Kemmler short yet, so I don't know if it reveals anything more about him, but I have no clue what his original goal was. Why start a World War? Was it just power he was after, or something else? If he had a different goal beyond ascending to godhood—like he thought he might need the power to do something specific—maybe he found a different way to accomplish that goal (such as coaxing Starborn to be his minions), and that necessitated going into hiding—which also requires avoiding black magic when possible to avoid detection.

Again, likely? Nope. Almost absolutely certain this isn't the case. Slim, minuscule, infinitesimal chance? Yeah.

Offline SerScot

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2018, 09:24:50 PM »
I don't think it's likely at all, but it's possible that his plans changed. I haven't read the Luccio Kemmler short yet, so I don't know if it reveals anything more about him, but I have no clue what his original goal was. Why start a World War? Was it just power he was after, or something else? If he had a different goal beyond ascending to godhood—like he thought he might need the power to do something specific—maybe he found a different way to accomplish that goal (such as coaxing Starborn to be his minions), and that necessitated going into hiding—which also requires avoiding black magic when possible to avoid detection.

Again, likely? Nope. Almost absolutely certain this isn't the case. Slim, minuscule, infinitesimal chance? Yeah.

Actually, it would be really interesting if Kemmler was a “Thanos” style nutjob who really believes he’s doing all this to “save the world”.
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline Mira

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2018, 11:20:58 PM »


 I think everyone will be shocked to learn that Kemmler is Kemmler..

Offline SerScot

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2018, 11:29:52 PM »

 I think everyone will be shocked to learn that Kemmler is Kemmler..

That’s my point
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline groinkick

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2018, 12:23:46 AM »
I don't think Justin was Kemmler but the argument that Bob would recognize him doesn't hold water, as Kemmler could have just ordered Bob to erase any information he has related to his personal identity just as Harry was able to order Bob to erase information.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline SerScot

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2018, 12:26:22 AM »
I don't think Justin was Kemmler but the argument that Bob would recognize him doesn't hold water, as Kemmler could have just ordered Bob to erase any information he has related to his personal identity just as Harry was able to order Bob to erase information.

If Justin was Kemmler why wasn’t Justin using Necromancy?
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline jonas

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2018, 12:32:15 AM »
Anyone else catch Jim said Bob was held by two very powerful wizards who left an impression on Bob? So... Justin for his own reasons didn't count... cause he's a Kemmler duplicate?
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Offline exartiem

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2018, 04:30:05 AM »
As posted in pieces in another thread, here is my theory:

Justin is a warden present in the final battle with Kemmler.  Kemmler swaps bodies with Justin, a la Corpsetaker, just before the final blow is struck, killing Justin instead of Kemmler.

Kemmler/Justin then retires as a warden, retrieves the skull and commands the entity to keep his true identity a secret.

Years later, he adopts Harry and orders the spirit to instruct Harry.  In order to do this without risking revealing Kemmler's secret, the spirit creates a new personality without the knowledge of Kemmler.  This new personality imprints on Harry creating Bob.

Later, Harry inadvertently orders Bob to remember the original personality which almost kills him, to prevent Harry from learning Kemmler's .  Harry orders Bob to never remember that personality, so Bob amputates Evil Bob.

My personal theory now:  Kemmler is actually hiding in Elaine, without her knowing it.

Offline SerScot

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2018, 06:51:17 PM »
Why wasn’t Justin doing Necromancy if he was Kemmler?
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline groinkick

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2018, 07:50:15 PM »
If Justin was Kemmler why wasn’t Justin using Necromancy?

lol What was the first thing I said?  "I don't think Justin was Kemmler"
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline groinkick

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2018, 07:51:15 PM »
Anyone else catch Jim said Bob was held by two very powerful wizards who left an impression on Bob? So... Justin for his own reasons didn't count... cause he's a Kemmler duplicate?

Probably their strong personalities, and their dedication to their beliefs.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline exartiem

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Re: I don’t think Justin was Kemmler
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2018, 11:13:45 AM »
Necromancy isn't the only thing Kemmler can do.  Necromancy isn't so good at controlling the living, so he would have to resort to other forms of black magic to create his followers.