Ask Jim Questions - Today!

[jonas]

lol are you inferring that Vadderrung is a Walker?

Lol, he was sitting right beside Harry too, giving him advice when Before showed up... but Before stayed away until while Vadderrung stayed... Mmm.


*also the direct Uriel=Before power comparison is perhaps a key towards walkers and angels in fact being on similar plains of existence.

[Griffyn612]

I think the point we're missing is, if the Walkers are on level with TWG's highest level enforcers, and they're servants to the Lord of Slowest Terror... Who's level is LoST on?   

[Fcrate]

I think the point we're missing is, if the Walkers are on level with TWG's highest level enforcers, and they're servants to the Lord of Slowest Terror... Who's level is LoST on?   

Chuck Norris.

[Griffyn612]

Chuck Norris.

I wouldn't go that far.  Otherwise the Gates would have already fallen.

[raidem]

I'm glad we got more of mabs backstory, at least via those she has on ice.

[groinkick]

Griff.....



I think it's safe to assume if Dresden had the Chuck Norris Mantle, Storm Front would have been 50 pages long.  Dresden would have won, the series would have been finished, and the first 49 pages would have been him having sex with Murphy.

[jonas]

Lmao, love the 3 walkers vs one Meme.

[Fcrate]

I think it's safe to assume if Dresden had the Chuck Norris Mantle, Storm Front would have been 50 pages long.  Dresden would have won, the series would have been finished, and the first 49 pages would have been him having sex with Murphy.

And Susan, and maybe Kim too.
Heh. An explosion of memes.

[Quantus]

I think the point we're missing is, if the Walkers are on level with TWG's highest level enforcers, and they're servants to the Lord of Slowest Terror... Who's level is LoST on?   

I think it's a mistake to assume we've seen anything close to "TWG's highest level enforcers."  Hell, I dont really think we've actually seen /mab's/ highest level enforcers (no, Harry and Molly dont count).  We've seen mid- to high-level operators that /fit/ through the cracks The Outsiders currently have in Reality.  We havent so much as actually /seen/ the battlefields that Angels fight on, or any of the things that those (two now) rank-and-file angels are there to fight. 

Think about it: the fact that angels are not taking the field at the Outer Gates likely means they have bigger fish to fry somewhere.  (That or Free Will limitations at play)

[Griffyn612]

I think it's a mistake to assume we've seen anything close to "TWG's highest level enforcers."  Hell, I dont really think we've actually seen /mab's/ highest level enforcers (no, Harry and Molly dont count).  We've seen mid- to high-level operators that /fit/ through the cracks The Outsiders currently have in Reality.  We havent so much as actually /seen/ the battlefields that Angels fight on, or any of the things that those (two now) rank-and-file angels are there to fight. 

Think about it: the fact that angels are not taking the field at the Outer Gates likely means they have bigger fish to fry somewhere.  (That or Free Will limitations at play)

I thought the Arches were at the top, above all the other angels (including the Thrones)

[Snark Knight]

*also the direct Uriel=Before power comparison is perhaps a key towards walkers and angels in fact being on similar plains of existence.

I pretty much figured the angels and the Outsiders must have been at odds in prehistory already. Uriel said in SG when Charity wanted him to avoid risking himself against the squires while he was mortal that he'd been fighting in wars before Earth existed. The Fallen rebellion is probably one, but for it to be wars plural, the outsiders look like the next most likely candidate. Particularly given Before's claim that this was once their world.

That said, his specific answer was that Walkers are on a level similar to archangels, not absolute equality. Like maybe a Walker could make Uriel sweat in a straight fight, but he'd still have a healthy advantage.


Also, the answer to the question about what Lasciel would have done for Denarian Harry kind of makes me want to revise the probability of Mirror Harry having taken up the coin. I had thought Hannah Ascher was basically already constructed as a foil to Harry who said yes to Lasciel, and it would be repetitive to make that one of the differences in MM. But James Bond Harry might be different enough to make for a good antagonist.

[Quantus]

I thought the Arches were at the top, above all the other angels (including the Thrones)

If you mean Archangels like Uriel then sure, but those are VP's, not Enforcers, and they are the ones sitting down to play a multidimensional chess-game even though they could wipe the board out.  I dont think we'll ever see him take the field because I dont think any of hte other characters can actually perceive it.  But I do think we'll see actual Forces of Heaven that take the field and sling Power. Hell Too (Hell's Bells Y'all).


But Id be careful pulling RW angelology into it with things like Thrones that havent been mentioned yet.  In the hierarchy where Thrones appear they rank Archangels in the 3rd tier 

[Griffyn612]

If you mean Archangels like Uriel then sure, but those are VP's, not Enforcers, and they are the ones sitting down to play a multidimensional chess-game even though they could wipe the board out.  I dont think we'll ever see him take the field because I dont think any of hte other characters can actually perceive it.  But I do think we'll see actual Forces of Heaven that take the field and sling Power. Hell Too (Hell's Bells Y'all).


But Id be careful pulling RW angelology into it with things like Thrones that havent been mentioned yet.  In the hierarchy where Thrones appear they rank Archangels in the 3rd tier

To confirm, I'm talking about this.

HHWB, being a Walker, is an outsider on a power level similar to Uriel. He can do all KINDS of stuff. But also has a lot of weird limits as to when and where he can use his power.

As for the tiers, the third seems like the only one that interacts with mortals.  Even if they're lower in power (which I'm not sure of) they're still the "enforcers".  A pebble in a sling is more dangerous than a stable boulder.

But I don't see them as tiers ranked 1-3.  I see them more like Courts with different job responsibilities.  So the Arches, Seraphim, and Dominions might all be equal. (Milton said Luci was a Seraphim, for example)

[Quantus]

To confirm, I'm talking about this.As for the tiers, the third seems like the only one that interacts with mortals.  Even if they're lower in power (which I'm not sure of) they're still the "enforcers".  A pebble in a sling is more dangerous than a stable boulder.

But I don't see them as tiers ranked 1-3.  I see them more like Courts with different job responsibilities.  So the Arches, Seraphim, and Dominions might all be equal. (Milton said Luci was a Seraphim, for example)

Right.   What I was trying to say is that I REEEEAAAAALLLLLY dont think that the Walkers are equivalent to Archangels.  Mab or the Mothers, maybe, but not the sort of Trans-dimensional, outside-of-time being that Uriel is.

[jonas]

Right.   What I was trying to say is that I REEEEAAAAALLLLLY dont think that the Walkers are equivalent to Archangels.  Mab or the Mothers, maybe, but not the sort of Trans-dimensional, outside-of-time being that Uriel is.

Dude... they are literally trans-dimensional, their appearance being based on what reality they are trying to crack open, and they are Outsiders... Outside of time? Time is after all a part of reality, an idea unto itself(hell, a powered avatar unto itself by Mab's pronoun) and even the NN isn't exactly subject to time... also, Before was directly comparedto the weight class of Mab, deeper even, if not 'bigger'(though that's probably just a point for description of comparison of living spirit vs Redead one). Not saying I think they are Archangel level or not, just saying lol.