Are there more wizards like Elaine?

[Quantus]

One has to wonder about Harry though.   If he hadn't killed Justin, got caught and put under the Doom, and as a minor in the custody of Eb, wouldn't he also be avoiding the White Council and faking his abilities if he was tested?  I mean until he killed Justin and was captured by the Wardens, he didn't even know they existed.  The fact that he survived and was placed in the care of Eb, not only his grandfather [unknown at the time] but also highly placed/regarded on the Council would insure a favorable view of the Council..  If he learned about the Council from other points of view, he might well have avoided becoming a member. Or if he had earlier understood his mother's rebellion against them and their prejudice against him because of her, he may also have figured out a way to avoid becoming a member.

Given that he seemed to have a pretty negative view of the Council even /with/ his experience living with Eb, I'd assume that he'd be at least as distrustful if he'd learned about their idea of "justice" prior to being caught by it.  The real catch would be that he'd still need somebody to tell him about them ahead of time.  Which, now that you mention it, is a little conspicuous on Lea's part.  If she actually thought warning him against them was in his own best interest, she'd have been bound by her Godmotherly duty to warn him.  It's a little telling that she did did apparently believe that turning him over to them was the best thing for him, either to be taught by them or to simply learn to Survive them (or both).  But she must have had a reasonably strong confidence that they wouldn't actually kill him, or she'd have warned him when she had the chance. 

[Avernite]

Given that he seemed to have a pretty negative view of the Council even /with/ his experience living with Eb, I'd assume that he'd be at least as distrustful if he'd learned about their idea of "justice" prior to being caught by it.  The real catch would be that he'd still need somebody to tell him about them ahead of time.  Which, now that you mention it, is a little conspicuous on Lea's part.  If she actually thought warning him against them was in his own best interest, she'd have been bound by her Godmotherly duty to warn him.  It's a little telling that she did did apparently believe that turning him over to them was the best thing for him, either to be taught by them or to simply learn to Survive them (or both).  But she must have had a reasonably strong confidence that they wouldn't actually kill him, or she'd have warned him when she had the chance.

Well, presumably Lea knew Eb was on the Council. And, from the way it was written in Proven Guilty, I think a Council member in good standing advocating for a one-mistake Warlock during times of peace is pretty likely to get a deferment of the death sentence. After all, one in bad standing during war almost managed it.

[Quantus]

Well, presumably Lea knew Eb was on the Council. And, from the way it was written in Proven Guilty, I think a Council member in good standing advocating for a one-mistake Warlock during times of peace is pretty likely to get a deferment of the death sentence. After all, one in bad standing during war almost managed it.

Indeed.  But since he apparently did not (successfully at least) intervene on his own daughter's behalf, it seems odd if not impossible that she'd assume he's succeed with the grandson that he supposedly did not at that point know he had.  Unless he knew about his grandson and left him in an orphanage, or later with a warlock. 

[Avernite]

Indeed.  But since he apparently did not (successfully at least) intervene on his own daughter's behalf, it seems odd if not impossible that she'd assume he's succeed with the grandson that he supposedly did not at that point know he had.  Unless he knew about his grandson and left him in an orphanage, or later with a warlock.

Well, we don't know exactly all Margaret Dresden did to get onto the Council's list-for-punishment. For all we know she was far beyond anything like a single lawbreak by the time she broke up with Raith (or maybe hooking up with the enemy, being a political crime, has no such principles for reformation and education as a Warlock has).

[Mira]

     I don't think Harry knew of the existence of the White Council prior to his arrest, I seem to remember him saying that.

[Quantus]

Well, we don't know exactly all Margaret Dresden did to get onto the Council's list-for-punishment. For all we know she was far beyond anything like a single lawbreak by the time she broke up with Raith (or maybe hooking up with the enemy, being a political crime, has no such principles for reformation and education as a Warlock has).

Per Eb in BR she was suspected of things and generally had loud and unpopular views, but the only Law they were after her for was a violation of the First Law. 

Of Course, in Eb's defense it one thing to be able to stand up for a Teenager who has clearly never had a full education, and quite another to ask for the Doom on a student that has nominally completed Eb's schooling already and /still/ when dark.  I could see the council saying that Harry was still young but Maggie had already had her chances and made her adult choices.

[LordDresden2]

Per Eb in BR she was suspected of things and generally had loud and unpopular views, but the only Law they were after her for was a violation of the First Law. 

I don't have the book handy, but IIRC he said something to the effects of 'the First Law, among other things'.  I think Margaret was pretty far gone by the time she was on the run from the Council.

[LordDresden2]

i feel the need to point out that pre Internet, paranet, and mass information sharing, it would have been almost impossible to self train yourself without a rebel wizard of some sort teaching you directly, or stealing books from practitioners likely much stronger than you.

Now though you could probably have a weaker paraneter download scores real magic spell books deep on the bit torrent network or the darknet and print them out for a paranoid young wizard. id say give it 50 years to develop and that situation with secret council level mages will increase exponentially.
im talking about the apprentice stages because after the basics wizards don't seem to need much outside help to improve.
for example i downloaded dozens of rare old occult books once just to skim through, there were WAY more available.

But keep in mind that the Council is eventually going to start making sure that those sources are 'reviewed', esp. for anything touching on the Seventh Law.

Also, in the age of the Internet, now you'll have to figure out who to trust and who to run from fast.  How does a self-training talent know to trust the Paranet but ignore the Metanet (which is secretly run by the White Court)?

[wardenferry419]

Metanet? Is that a theory or actual thing?

[Mira]

Given that he seemed to have a pretty negative view of the Council even /with/ his experience living with Eb, I'd assume that he'd be at least as distrustful if he'd learned about their idea of "justice" prior to being caught by it.  The real catch would be that he'd still need somebody to tell him about them ahead of time.  Which, now that you mention it, is a little conspicuous on Lea's part.  If she actually thought warning him against them was in his own best interest, she'd have been bound by her Godmotherly duty to warn him.  It's a little telling that she did did apparently believe that turning him over to them was the best thing for him, either to be taught by them or to simply learn to Survive them (or both).  But she must have had a reasonably strong confidence that they wouldn't actually kill him, or she'd have warned him when she had the chance.

That is what is odd, because even though the Council treated him like crap, he didn't rebel like his Mom..  Nor was his view of it entirely negative, his approach could be called a bit more passive/aggressive.. 

[Arjan]

Indeed.  But since he apparently did not (successfully at least) intervene on his own daughter's behalf, it seems odd if not impossible that she'd assume he's succeed with the grandson that he supposedly did not at that point know he had.  Unless he knew about his grandson and left him in an orphanage, or later with a warlock.

Margaret was never caught by the white council so Eb was never in a position to intervene at his daughters behalf. For that she first had to be caught.

[Mira]

Margaret was never caught by the white council so Eb was never in a position to intervene at his daughters behalf. For that she first had to be caught.

https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php?action=post;quote=2309526;topic=51334.15;last_msg=2309526

But she was a member at one time I believe or at least as Eb's apprentice, part of it... Then she rebelled, so while she was never caught after she broke the more serious Laws that would cost her her head, she was part of it at one time.   Review the interaction between Harry and the Senior Council at the beginning of Summer Knight,  there is no mistaking there was former interaction between Margaret and the Senior Council.

[Arjan]

https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php?action=post;quote=2309526;topic=51334.15;last_msg=2309526

But she was a member at one time I believe or at least as Eb's apprentice, part of it... Then she rebelled, so while she was never caught after she broke the more serious Laws that would cost her her head, she was part of it at one time.   Review the interaction between Harry and the Senior Council at the beginning of Summer Knight,  there is no mistaking there was former interaction between Margaret and the Senior Council.

Sure but we will never know if Ebenezar's influence could have saved his daughter, it never came up.

[Fcrate]

I doubt it. Margaret wasn't an untrained warlock, she has had a full apprenticeship (is that a word?) She has foreknowledge of the laws, and thus no excuse.
Still, she also played in the gray area, if Luccio is to be believed, and never crossed to the real black magic.

[Arjan]

I doubt it. Margaret wasn't an untrained warlock, she has had a full apprenticeship (is that a word?) She has foreknowledge of the laws, and thus no excuse.
Still, she also played in the gray area, if Luccio is to be believed, and never crossed to the real black magic.

I don’t think so either but we do not know the exact circumstances, we do not know exactly how far you get with politics in wizard trials.

But the merlin probably wanted her dead so she was better of hiding.