Arthurian Myths in Dresden Files

[Con]

We know that the Original Merlin heavily features in the background of The Dresden Files, and Amorraccius is regarded as Excalibur by both Michael and Sir Stuart.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to how Arthurian Myths affect or figure into the Dresden Files?

I remember when reading Le MOrte de Arthur that Three Faerie Queens appeared to Arthur at the moment of his death.

The Lady of the Lake is widely regarded as Fae, as is the Green Knight and the Fisher King.

King Arthur is also listed as one of the Leaders of the Wild Hunt according to some sources.

Any other ideas or moments when Arthurian Myths appear in the Dresden Files? Or ones that you wish to appear in the Dresden Files?

[groinkick]

I personally believe they play a big role.  I have speculated that the prisoner on Demon Reach is King Arthur as per legend he was taken to an Island to heal from a mortal wound, and make a later return.

"The island is Avalon, which may be mythical. Arthur was reportedly buried there -- according to the legend, however, he is only sleeping."

[groinkick]

Avalon is ruled by the Lady of the lake...  Interesting tidbit.

Avalon is a legendary island featured in the Arthurian legend. It first appears in Geoffrey of Monmouth's 1136 pseudo-historical account Historia Regum Britanniae as the place where King Arthur's sword Excalibur was forged and later where Arthur was taken to recover from his wounds after the Battle of Camlann. Avalon was associated from an early date with mystical practices and figures such as Morgan le Fay. It is traditionally identified as the former island of Glastonbury Tor.

[Quantus]

There's also the DV detail that Ammorachius is the only Sword that has not been periodically remade/reforged, and also is the one we know was previously in the keeping of a ridiculously powerful wizard. 

I suspect a reforging of the Blades will happen, and the "How did Merlin do It?" question will be important. 

I dont really think, or at least dont really want, Demonreach to be Avalon.  I dont mind the world being big enough for two magic Islands, and I kinda think it cheapens Avalon to say Merlin Created it the way he did Demonreach.  Id rather it be out there (maybe a NN place, maybe a earth island) and serve another specific function the way the Well does. 


There are a number of longstanding theories that equates Mab and Maeve to some of the Queens by the historic etymology of their names, and various ties to the old myths.  Elaine too.   Im not sure how much stock I put into that, if only because Ive seen that same body of source material be used sooooo many different ways. 

[raidem]

There are a number of longstanding theories that equates Mab and Maeve to some of the Queens by the historic etymology of their names, and various ties to the old myths.  Elaine too.   Im not sure how much stock I put into that, if only because Ive seen that same body of source material be used sooooo many different ways. 

My Wags don't do that. Their identities are of rather modern origin, at least as far as Murphy though Ms. Duck argues for Molly. 

[Kindler]

There's also the DV detail that Ammorachius is the only Sword that has not been periodically remade/reforged, and also is the one we know was previously in the keeping of a ridiculously powerful wizard. 

I suspect a reforging of the Blades will happen, and the "How did Merlin do It?" question will be important. 

Do you think Merlin forged the Swords, or reforged them? As far as I can remember, he only had one, but that was just Harry talking tough.

I tend to think that it was a human who made the Swords the first time, not the Host. Pretty sure it being an act of free will is an important part of their integrity. All of this is to ask: who forged them in the first place?

[Quantus]

My Wags don't do that. Their identities are of rather modern origin, at least as far as Murphy though Ms. Duck argues for Molly. 

"Modern"? Not sure the Future counts as "modern"

[Quantus]

Do you think Merlin forged the Swords, or reforged them? As far as I can remember, he only had one, but that was just Harry talking tough.

Reforged, and just Ammorachius.  And nit-pick but it was Michael talking, so slightly less fallible a source where the Swords are concerned. 

[/quote]
I tend to think that it was a human who made the Swords the first time, not the Host. Pretty sure it being an act of free will is an important part of their integrity. All of this is to ask: who forged them in the first place?
[/quote]I doubt it, since the power of the Swords even predated the Crucifixion itself.  I think they are more or less Object Mantles, Powerful embodiment of their given Abstract concept, much like living mantles. It's why the Faith part was so much more important than the Sword part, and how it could be Kusanagi way back in BC times.

[Fcrate]

I doubt it, since the power of the Swords even predated the Crucifixion itself.  I think they are more or less Object Mantles, Powerful embodiment of their given Abstract concept, much like living mantles. It's why the Faith part was so much more important than the Sword part, and how it could be Kusanagi way back in BC times.

The Swords have the nails from the Crucifix in them but the actually predate the Crucifixion?
Also, they're a conduit to TWG's power.

[Quantus]

The Swords have the nails from the Crucifix in them but the actually predate the Crucifixion?
Also, they're a conduit to TWG's power.

Yup.  Kusanagi, which per the ghosts in GS is another name for Fidelacchius, is a myth that long predates the Crucifixion. I personally think that the only thing special about Ammorachius in terms of a reforging that Merlin did something to make it a far more durable container for the Sword-mantle than it had previously been able to find/manifest.

2011 Bitten by Books Q&A
How can Kusanagi be a Sword of the Cross when it predates the crucifixion?
Because the Swords are ideas and symbols as much as they are physical objects–maybe even more so. Kusanagi isn’t the original Kusanagi, Exaclibur isn’t the original Excalibur, etc. But their title, their /idea/ has been passed down from one generation to the next, much as the names of warships are passed down to the next generation of ships, with the new ship inheriting the titles, victories, and traditions of its forbears. The nails are passed on from one sword to the next, bringing bits of the metal of each sword that came before

[Fcrate]

Ok this is news to me. Thanks 

[groinkick]

My Wags don't do that. Their identities are of rather modern origin, at least as far as Murphy though Ms. Duck argues for Molly. 

We know this current Mab was a Winter Lady before becoming who she is today.  So an earlier Mab would not have been Murphy, or Molly so her Name could still be tied to older legends, or myths.

[raidem]

So, Murphy becomes a winter lady in the past and works her way up.  Harry will end up time traveling.  He may end up bringing some of his allies with him.  It would be a great place for Murphy to get stranded in.

That or Murphy's family reunion disappears like Milwaukee gets disappeared during the unseelie invasion 1994.  If the reunion gets transported back in time, it could give Murphy an opening to do something.

That said, I could see mab as not some current character that went into the past to become her. That she has natural origins.

I just think Murphy is destined to be a Mab character when this is done.

[groinkick]

So, Murphy becomes a winter lady in the past and works her way up.  Harry will end up time traveling.  He may end up bringing some of his allies with him.  It would be a great place for Murphy to get stranded in.

"Last time a Starborn was running around"...  It was actually Dresden!  His actions result in a Lady dying, Mantle goes to Murphy who's with him.  Only problem is I think she needs to be a virgin?  I dunno.

[jonas]

Oh God, that's such a large scope question my mind is having trouble breaking it down. Short answer is Arthurian legend is of paramount importance in the DF. It's my belief that the they are the most previous generation to ascend or change places with current immortal identities.(i.e. by mantle or subsumption)
Tangent- the gyre and the reversal of time/fate met a head in the Arthur/Hastings period were in the mortals became the god's as the 2k gyre mirrors itself not only in repetition but in the breaking down actions of 1k vs the second. The predication of the idea that Arthur has been identified with such hunter/death mythos in the pas as Gwyn ap Nudd and the idea he became perhaps EK seems reasonable to say, Merlin becoming Odin/Kringle. The deference in wisdom seen in CD's to Kringles expertise is only a small example of said relationship...
And.. it must be noted that the current inversion/incarnations are Harry and Marcone...
*the intentional collision of Celtic and Christian ideals seen in FM in  Marcone's yard cannot be ignored easily even if you can't find reason in the queen names/connections. Also the real world connection between Merlin the Wanderer and Odin..