Supernatural Nations you'd like to see.

[Guardianw007]

I could see where there'd be a "Lady Robert" and Harry would ask how that's supposed to work, and Molly would whisper something about not assuming genders, and Harry would say something embarrassing (as us Gen-Xers do about such things), and then things would fall apart.   

As long as Bob was there so he could recount the story later.
 Bob: "And then Harry punched the Lady in the face."
 Murphy: "Dresden!"
 Harry: "It wasn't like that!  It wasn't a woman!"
 Murphy: "The Lady wasn't a woman?"
 Harry: "Not a real woman."
 <offended stares all around>
 Harry: "No, I don't mean-- he could be a woman if he-- I mean--"
 Toe-moss: "Harr-eee.  How could you?!"
 Harry: "Don't you start!"
 Murphy: "So much for that chivalrous streak."
 Harry: "He looked like a man!"
 Molly: "Alright, Ms. Swan, let it go."
 Harry: "..."
 Molly: "I will say this about the Lady, though.  He could take a punch."

*sigh*  You just get me.

You should probably have a doctor look at that. 

Also, for the record, as a Chicano I should apologize to my ancestors for referring to Ramirez as "Martinez".

"ˇMucho mal, mijo!  ˇ No somos todos intercambiables!"

[Snark Knight]

Nah, the Svartalves are their own "Faction".  Their own "Court".  I'm talking about the existence of unfactioned creatures.  Creatures that aren't unique, but of small enough number that they're not a "Power" in their own right.  They're not subservient to the Sidhe, or the Fomor, or anyone else.  They'd be the equivalent of the "Wild Fae", only they're really not beholden to anyone.  The Wild Fae still have to choose sides at times.  I'm proposing a society that says "No" to the wars between the Sidhe and the Fomor and the Vamps and everything else. 
Now, the Svartalves and other Courts could obviously be part of, and involved with, the supernatural community.  But it wouldn't be dependent on any one group.

Well, the freeholding lords are individuals without factions, and the Jade Court are pretty much fanatically neutral when it comes to other nations' conflicts. But it might be a matter of needing a certain measure of power (either individually or collectively) before you're more trouble than you're worth for anyone bigger to draft into their hegemony like the wyldfae are subject to.

To use a real-world example, Switzerland's neutrality wasn't respected throughout the 20'th century just because everyone else trusted them to mind their own business. Plenty of other small countries were non-threatening and still wound up annexed because they were in the way for rival great powers trying to get at each other. Switzerland's neutrality was respected because they fortified all the ways into their territory into world-class m*****f***ing deathtraps and then minded their own business behind their borders from a position of strength.

[Griffyn612]

Well, the freeholding lords are individuals without factions, and the Jade Court are pretty much fanatically neutral when it comes to other nations' conflicts. But it might be a matter of needing a certain measure of power (either individually or collectively) before you're more trouble than you're worth for anyone bigger to draft into their hegemony like the wyldfae are subject to.

To use a real-world example, Switzerland's neutrality wasn't respected throughout the 20'th century just because everyone else trusted them to mind their own business. Plenty of other small countries were non-threatening and still wound up annexed because they were in the way for rival great powers trying to get at each other. Switzerland's neutrality was respected because they fortified all the ways into their territory into world-class m*****f***ing deathtraps and then minded their own business behind their borders from a position of strength.

Right, but I'm not really talking about a nation.  I'm talking about a society of creatures made up of members that aren't really worth trying to control.

Take the Adlets, for example.  They're an Inuit supernatural species with the upper bodies of humans and the lower bodies of dogs whose only notable ability is to run fast.  They're not part of a structured pantheon; they're not gods or demigods.  They're just creatures that exist.

And rather than them being isolationists like the group in Cold Case, I want to hear where they integrated into human society using illusions to hide their legs.  They used their natural speed in centuries past to corner the messenger market, and they're now dominating the bike messanger and delivery services in cities across the globe.

Stuff like that.  Low level, every-day supernatural life.  Kobbs working on shoes like in IMBT.  Et cetera, et cetera.

[exartiem]

The Watchers.

[dspringer1]

I think the series is long overdue for some participation by a supernatural nation associated with Native Americans.  I get why it is unlikely.   If these supernatural critters need some strong measure of belief to "maintain the connection" like the Summer and Winter courts need, then the fact that very few Native Americans survived into the 20th century probably banished most native supernaturals to the deeper areas of the never never.   

The one exception is the red court, which really is a native American based supernatural nation as it was originally associated with the Azteks and like nations in central America.  I suspect that it was the massive loss of life and Christianization of natives that allowed the Red Court to spread and grow into such a great supernatural power as the competing powers were swept away or banished.   

[Quantus]

I think the series is long overdue for some participation by a supernatural nation associated with Native Americans.  I get why it is unlikely.   If these supernatural critters need some strong measure of belief to "maintain the connection" like the Summer and Winter courts need, then the fact that very few Native Americans survived into the 20th century probably banished most native supernaturals to the deeper areas of the never never.   

The one exception is the red court, which really is a native American based supernatural nation as it was originally associated with the Azteks and like nations in central America.  I suspect that it was the massive loss of life and Christianization of natives that allowed the Red Court to spread and grow into such a great supernatural power as the competing powers were swept away or banished.

There are some WOJs that make me think the lines of Importance arent always that literal.  For example, there's one that you says you couldnt truly Oblivionate(?) the Creator, because somebody would always ask themselves Where did this all Come From, and that would be enough of a link to the appropriate entity.  Similarly I think the Fae Courts are somewhat insulated by being so directly intertwined with the Seasons and the Natural Order, such that even if the human population stops believing in the literal existence of Fairies, they still believe in the Seasons and so the Fae will always have at least a small Link to Reality.  Which I do not think is a coincidence, I believe such a solid foundation is required to adequately Guard the Gates.

So in the case of Native American entities, they'd all be more naturalistic in general, and I theorize that being so in tune with the natural world would help them survive beyond the loss of literal worship.  I mean, people may not believe in a literally walking talking Trickster God, but they do still believe in Clever Coyotes.  Maybe that is enough?

[Quantus]

Oh, to the OP:

I want to see more of the offshoot humanoid races and society, especially since they count as Human enough for a Coin, but are wildly removed from mortal culture.  I really want to see cultures, Multiple cultures for a whole host of off-shoots.  Give me a Council of the Wildfolk that includes an uneasy alliance between Forrest People, Rock People, Ice People (yeti), and even some sort of scaled Water People (merfolk? atlanteans?)

[Avernite]

So in the case of Native American entities, they'd all be more naturalistic in general, and I theorize that being so in tune with the natural world would help them survive beyond the loss of literal worship.  I mean, people may not believe in a literally walking talking Trickster God, but they do still believe in Clever Coyotes.  Maybe that is enough?

If it's that abstract, it may be enough but wouldn't necessarily be a specific Native American personification; Kringle/Odin/Santa are all powered by some of the same belief, and so there'd hardly be space for Native-Santa to be his own thing; he'd just be another mask of the same being.

[Quantus]

If it's that abstract, it may be enough but wouldn't necessarily be a specific Native American personification; Kringle/Odin/Santa are all powered by some of the same belief, and so there'd hardly be space for Native-Santa to be his own thing; he'd just be another mask of the same being.

I disagree, on the basis that Odin and Santa ARE different beings, they just happen to be sharing the same host body/intellect at the moment.  Santa and Odin ARE the masks, and it is only circumstance (and presumably skill and planning) that has kept them together this long.  I would assume they'd have different Inheritance patterns, and would go to different hosts should the current one be killed, for example.  Santa would almost certainly go to an elf or some fae/changeling, while Odin would more likely go to one of the remaining Aesir.

[Griffyn612]

Meh.  I'm not as convinced that Odin is a mask or mantle.

And i don't think that Santa Claus was a naturally occurring mantle; I think it was constructed specifically for Odin to keep him involved after the handover of the Guardianship.

As for the "native santa", maybe the Kringle mantle was built to incorporate "Handsome Fellow" into itself, but I don't think there's any faith to be had from that.  Not much faith in Kringle, for that matter.

And I do think that there are different entities for different pantheons.  I don't think that the Hopi's Eototo Kachina is the same as Odin.  Both are the father figures in their pantheons, but they're not the same.  Angwusnasomtaka has some parallels to the Mothers, or Gaia if they're not her, but I don't think they're necessarily the same entities.

[Quantus]

Meh.  I'm not as convinced that Odin is a mask or mantle.

I am, but mostly because Im relatively confident he is not the original All-father.

And i don't think that Santa Claus was a naturally occurring mantle; I think it was constructed specifically for Odin to keep him involved after the handover of the Guardianship.

Im not entirely convinced any of them would qualify as "naturally occuring" with the possible exceptions of things like The Eldest, or maaaaybe the Erlking. 

As for the "native santa", maybe the Kringle mantle was built to incorporate "Handsome Fellow" into itself, but I don't think there's any faith to be had from that.  Not much faith in Kringle, for that matter.

You have apparently missed the Elf-on-the-shelf phenomenon   Faith does not need to be filtered through a church or holy book to be real.  And Frankly, Kids do Belief better than we adults do. 

And I do think that there are different entities for different pantheons.  I don't think that the Hopi's Eototo Kachina is the same as Odin.  Both are the father figures in their pantheons, but they're not the same.  Angwusnasomtaka has some parallels to the Mothers, or Gaia if they're not her, but I don't think they're necessarily the same entities.

Qualified agreement.  I dont have any reason to believe that *all* similar deities are the same entity by any means, but Im not ruling it out (on a case-by-case basis) either, given what we've been told about how Immortals fight over mantles.  And in the case of the greco/roman split I think we can be confident that those were an evolution of the same entities, and evolution that continued well beyond the limits of the popular myths, given the whole Fae/Hecate link. 

[Con]

I am, but mostly because Im relatively confident he is not the original All-father.

To you mean the translation of his name meaning 'younger father'.

Im not entirely convinced any of them would qualify as "naturally occuring" with the possible exceptions of things like The Eldest, or maaaaybe the Erlking. 
You have apparently missed the Elf-on-the-shelf phenomenon   Faith does not need to be filtered through a church or holy book to be real.  And Frankly, Kids do Belief better than we adults do. 

Qualified agreement.  I dont have any reason to believe that *all* similar deities are the same entity by any means, but Im not ruling it out (on a case-by-case basis) either, given what we've been told about how Immortals fight over mantles.  And in the case of the greco/roman split I think we can be confident that those were an evolution of the same entities, and evolution that continued well beyond the limits of the popular myths, given the whole Fae/Hecate link. 

There's also the evidence of a Centaur in the Summer Court suggesting the Fae took many Greek mythological beings into their fold.

In the comic book with the Hecaetean Hag Bob said that the original Hecate arose in an ascension like ritual that the Hag was attempting to perform. I can't remember all of the details but it sounded very Dark Hallowesque.

Theirs also the statue of Hecate in Skin Game, and Hades reminiscing about how Hecate kept Demeter distracted on Hades and Persephone

[Quantus]

To you mean the translation of his name meaning 'younger father'.

Yup, I really dig ont he idea that he's not the original.  Also it helps that in every appearance Harry is very careful to not actually, definitively state that vadderung IS Odin, he hedges with something "or he does a damn good impression" or something like that.   

[jonas]

thought the translation was more like "son of thunder" or something closer?

[Con]

Well any true die hard Star Wars fan will know that Vader means father, from their 'ung' means 'young'. i.e. Young Father.