Author Topic: Ghost Story's Lash  (Read 7762 times)

Offline raidem

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Ghost Story's Lash
« on: April 13, 2018, 04:09:35 PM »
We have WOJ that Lash appeared in Ghost Story. Many believe it was Bonnie via the Parasite referred to at the End of Ghost Story.  There are some WOJ's on this topic that I will include a bit later.

Quote
2011 Boston Signing
Is Lasciel going to make a comeback? The coin is still buried in the lab, right?
Her coin isn’t in the lab anymore. Her story is not yet over. However, both Lasciel and Lash appeared in Ghost Story, but not under those names.

So, from what I remember in past threads, these are the two primary theories regarding Lash's appearance in Ghost Story:
1). Lash=Parasite=Bonnie
2). Lash=Death Angel
3). Lash=7 whispered words
4). Lash=Inez
   
I had a thought today of a middle road with regard to #2.  I'm wondering if perhaps part of Lash was attached to the Death Angel to support her until Lash regained functionality on her own.
2A) Lash attached to Death Angel for rehabilitation.

Alternatively, we could just see another Lash in another timeline like that of a Mirror Mirror.  Or, we can see Lash in a time travel plot to the past.

Here are other WOJ's on the topic.  Many of these are older than the one quoted above.

Quote
What roll will Lasciel play in future books?
That's going to be another one of those where I go "Hahaha, I know and you don't" because, you know, it's the whole, I want to provide for my family thing.  Were're not done with Lasciel.  We might not even be totally done with Lash, but we will have to see how that goes. 
2009 Chicago signing:
Q:  Will we see Lash or Lasciel again?
A:  Lasciel’s story is not over.  And keep in mind what’s said about ‘a woman scorned.’  Also keep in mind that Lasciel is NOT Lash; Lasciel did not reabsorb the entity that Harry actually changed. (Yes, he use those words “that Harry actually changed.”)
2009 Independence signing
Q:  Was the voice in Harry’s head at the end of White Night (when he was playing guitar) a sign that Lash is still there?
A:  Not really.  But Lash’s story isn’t done.
2008 Comic-Con Q&A: @ about 6:11
Q:  Does Lasciel's shadow get to heaven because she redeemed herself?
A:  The answer to that is so much more complicated than is easy to give, especially without giving out extra story and ruining the fun.  No.  Lasciel's spirit didn't go to heaven.  And now, (sing song) I'm not gona tell you. *mutters about heroin for writers*  But it will come out, don't worry the story will be there.
Open plots from past books remained gaping while brand new ones left me thinking, "Wait, what?" more than once. Harry can still call Lasciel's coin to him whenever he wants? Really? Because....?
Some plots are still open because, you know. The story isn't done yet. And Harry knows it's possible for the coin to be summoned because Lash told him it was doable. As far as him being able to summon the coin, well. He kinda lied to Mab. It'll be clearer why he did, eventually.
2011 Bitten by Books Q&A
What twist has the series taken that even surprised you? I am constantly surprised by the twists and turns.
The whole Lasciel’s coin plot was something I instigated on the spur of the moment back in book 5, and which isn’t over yet. Lots of things happen that aren’t specifically spelled out, but which can be woven into the overstory plot that I’ve been pursuing. I expect new stuff will continue seeping out of my subconscious and prove to fit pretty smoothly into the outline. 

I believe there is also in book text that suggests ALL of Lash's leftovers went into Bonnie but I think it is reasonable to assume that some part of Lash's essence may have been diverted to Heaven at the point of her sacrifice that we just don't know about.  We do know however that most/some of Lash did indeed go into Bonnie.  The question then becomes one of ALL.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 10:52:15 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline WereElephant

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2018, 04:32:54 PM »
I like to think that the words whispered in Harry's ear at the end weren't by Uriel - he just told the tiny bit of Lash still within his head to say them.

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2018, 04:42:58 PM »
I like to think that the words whispered in Harry's ear at the end weren't by Uriel - he just told the tiny bit of Lash still within his head to say them.

Oh, that's a good one.

Captain Jack's door guard Amitiel also deserves some consideration, I think.

Offline raidem

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2018, 06:18:01 PM »
I like to think that the words whispered in Harry's ear at the end weren't by Uriel - he just told the tiny bit of Lash still within his head to say them.

I added that to the list.  I forgot that as a possibility but usually that was tied into the Death Angel. I guess Uriel could have had Bonnie say those words.  Or any Lash remnant outside of Bonnie within Harry.
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline peregrine

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2018, 06:41:11 PM »
I like to think that the words whispered in Harry's ear at the end weren't by Uriel - he just told the tiny bit of Lash still within his head to say them.
Why?

Offline WereElephant

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2018, 06:48:55 PM »
Why?

After hearing the Word of Jim that Lash appeared in Ghost Story, but not under that name, I started listing instances I could think of where she could be using an alias. None of the characters seemed to fit. Then I remembered Lasciel being the one who whispered the words that made him plan to kill himself in the first place. The idea of Lash being the one to lift him up from yielding to Mab felt nicely symmetrical.

Offline raidem

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2018, 09:30:11 PM »
Yeah.  I saw that argument before and I liked it.  Uriel balancing the scale with Lash whispering the words instead of himself.
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2018, 10:32:50 PM »
Personally I think the mention of the parasite at the end is Bonnie/Lash's "appearance".  No whispered words or deception necessary.

But if I were being creative, I'd pick Inez.  She's got some lines that hint that she's more than some ghost.

  • “This little world is so small,” she continued. “So dull. So dreary.”
  • “Sinned?” she suggested, her large eyes eerily serene. “Chose the left-hand path? Fell from grace? Cast the world into madness?”
  • “There are far, far worse things to be than a monster.”

Even Harry had guessed she was something else by the end.
  • I folded my arms and stared at Inez. My voice came out ragged and harsh. “You aren’t the ghost of a little girl.” Her little face lit up with another smile. “If I am no ghost, why do you look so haunted?”

And then there's Alfred's comment about Inez, who he seems to know about, despite never having left the island.  As if he's dealt with her/put up with her for a few months as they both sustained Harry's life.
  • “An insufferable entity,” murmured a slow, deep, redolent basso voice behind me. “Her soul is made of crooked lines.”

Inez's wordplay is more like Mab, and Alfred would know her well enough to be judgemental about her as well.  But some of the comments, about the world and sin, sound more angelic.  More eternal than even Mab, who's a newborn compared to Lasciel/Lash.

Offline raidem

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2018, 10:46:30 PM »
Hmm. I like it.

I'll combine the Inez=Lash idea with my idea that Mab=Murphy.  Murphy gets either Lasciel's coin at some point or Lash's shade prior to a time traveling trip.  So, when Mab and Demonreach was pinned down giving CPR to Harry, Mab allowed the Lash spirit attached to her to take wings and animate Inez.  The reason I think Murphy will end up with Lash or Lasciel is that we get a dream of Murphy possessed by Lasciel shooting Harry in the head in Skin Game when they were in bed.  I still argue it wasn't merely a warning about there being a female fallen angel Lasciel in the plot in Skin Game but that Murphy will get targeted by Lasciel AND that the dream was also touching on Mab's dream which followed Harry touching Molly's dream.

My idea then would be that Murphy's story and Lash's story (or is it Lasciel's) will intersect, they will time travel, and Murphy will use this resource to gain power and ascend to Mab 1000+ years ago.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 10:51:49 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline Kindler

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 01:24:34 PM »
Personally I think the mention of the parasite at the end is Bonnie/Lash's "appearance".  No whispered words or deception necessary.

But if I were being creative, I'd pick Inez.  She's got some lines that hint that she's more than some ghost.

  • “This little world is so small,” she continued. “So dull. So dreary.”
  • “Sinned?” she suggested, her large eyes eerily serene. “Chose the left-hand path? Fell from grace? Cast the world into madness?”
  • “There are far, far worse things to be than a monster.”

Even Harry had guessed she was something else by the end.
  • I folded my arms and stared at Inez. My voice came out ragged and harsh. “You aren’t the ghost of a little girl.” Her little face lit up with another smile. “If I am no ghost, why do you look so haunted?”

And then there's Alfred's comment about Inez, who he seems to know about, despite never having left the island.  As if he's dealt with her/put up with her for a few months as they both sustained Harry's life.
  • “An insufferable entity,” murmured a slow, deep, redolent basso voice behind me. “Her soul is made of crooked lines.”

Inez's wordplay is more like Mab, and Alfred would know her well enough to be judgemental about her as well.  But some of the comments, about the world and sin, sound more angelic.  More eternal than even Mab, who's a newborn compared to Lasciel/Lash.

I could buy it. Maybe it was whatever remained of Lash looking in on her kid.

Offline WereElephant

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2018, 01:41:03 PM »
Personally I think the mention of the parasite at the end is Bonnie/Lash's "appearance".  No whispered words or deception necessary.

But if I were being creative, I'd pick Inez.  She's got some lines that hint that she's more than some ghost.

  • “This little world is so small,” she continued. “So dull. So dreary.”
  • “Sinned?” she suggested, her large eyes eerily serene. “Chose the left-hand path? Fell from grace? Cast the world into madness?”
  • “There are far, far worse things to be than a monster.”

Even Harry had guessed she was something else by the end.
  • I folded my arms and stared at Inez. My voice came out ragged and harsh. “You aren’t the ghost of a little girl.” Her little face lit up with another smile. “If I am no ghost, why do you look so haunted?”

And then there's Alfred's comment about Inez, who he seems to know about, despite never having left the island.  As if he's dealt with her/put up with her for a few months as they both sustained Harry's life.
  • “An insufferable entity,” murmured a slow, deep, redolent basso voice behind me. “Her soul is made of crooked lines.”

Inez's wordplay is more like Mab, and Alfred would know her well enough to be judgemental about her as well.  But some of the comments, about the world and sin, sound more angelic.  More eternal than even Mab, who's a newborn compared to Lasciel/Lash.

Inez is more than meets the eye, certainly, but I think her comments are too antagonistic toward Dresden to be Lash. By the time of Lash's demise, she seemed to be interested in preserving Dresden, to the point of cutting her ties with progenitor Lasciel. The comments reflected here do the opposite - their intention is to drive him farther along the path Mab wants him to go, to becoming her obedient knight. I suppose, with a surviving Lash being a free agent, she might have been picked up by Mab, but that's me speculating.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2018, 04:59:48 PM »
I could buy it. Maybe it was whatever remained of Lash looking in on her kid.
Possibly.  It's definitely more mature than I'm expecting Bonnie to be.

Inez is more than meets the eye, certainly, but I think her comments are too antagonistic toward Dresden to be Lash. By the time of Lash's demise, she seemed to be interested in preserving Dresden, to the point of cutting her ties with progenitor Lasciel. The comments reflected here do the opposite - their intention is to drive him farther along the path Mab wants him to go, to becoming her obedient knight. I suppose, with a surviving Lash being a free agent, she might have been picked up by Mab, but that's me speculating.
According to WoJ, Mab had a proxy at both gravesite scenes.  I take it Alfred wasn't the proxy, so I'm assuming Inez was in one, and Lea was in the other. 

If (and again, a big IF) Inez was Lash and/or Bonnie, then they might not have had the power/freedom to act on their own.  They might have had to have borrowed power from Mab to appear to Harry.  If so, then Mab's agenda could have been rubbing off on the communication, especially if they were supposed to be acting on her behalf.

Like I said, it seems like a stretch.

Offline raidem

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2018, 05:19:27 PM »
I don't think Inez was Bonnie. I could accept that Inez was a separate entity outside of Bonnie.  Mab could have taken part of Lash remnant from Harry  that didn't become part of Bonnie.  She then rehabbed/assisted Lash. 

I'm keeping open the possibility that Murphy will team up with either Lash or Lasciel and use this assistance to become Mab.  Alternatively, Murphy/Mab took some of Lash essence after Lash's 'sacrifice' and made her into a distinct entity separate of Bonnie.
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2018, 10:52:15 PM »
If (and again, a big IF) Inez was Lash and/or Bonnie, then they might not have had the power/freedom to act on their own.  They might have had to have borrowed power from Mab to appear to Harry.  If so, then Mab's agenda could have been rubbing off on the communication, especially if they were supposed to be acting on her behalf.

I think Inez = Bonnie is a the bigger stretch of the two. Inez seemed a little too on the ball for somebody who has pure zero context to understand the knowledge at her disposal. Like, "pancakes aren't sentient" is progress for her.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Ghost Story's Lash
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2018, 11:18:32 PM »
I think Inez = Bonnie is a the bigger stretch of the two. Inez seemed a little too on the ball for somebody who has pure zero context to understand the knowledge at her disposal. Like, "pancakes aren't sentient" is progress for her.
Agreed.