Is Mac God?

[Kindler]

That could mean they have orders to stay away too though... God and Lucifer want the Sandbox intact, His 'out' being respected by Denarians even should say WORLDS about his affiliations...
Id insist he is one of the angels whose Graces power the swords. Most likely the sword of love, cause of the Arthur connotations in his DR visit.

I could buy him actually being King Arthur (or maybe Gawain?) who found the Grail and drank from it, before ceding it to Hades. I do think he's mortal, in the sense that he was a regular (but important) guy, he's just got this healing thing that happens to him when he's unconscious. Not full immortality, more like rapid reconstruction. He's "Out" because he's seen it all, and all of his efforts to preserve the world looked like a bunch of nothing when he saw the Outer Gates.

My only doubts concern his divinity. Pretty much anything else I could buy.

[raidem]

Hey.  In the Amberverse, Corwin's son Merlin best friend Luke is likely one of the ones to go into the newly created multiverse.  So, if Corwin=God=Mac in Dresdenverse, Merlin could possibly be Corwin's son.  But the interesting one is Luke.  If he was one of the earliest to enter the newly created multiverse, he could turn out to be Lucifer. Luke vs Lucifer.

Anyways, I do like the idea of taking Ambers multiverse that Corwin created and was never explored or touched due to the Author's death, and then have Jim use this untouched multiverse as a foundation for the Dresdenverse.  It allows Jim to hide these Amber characters behind these mythological/religious/cultural characters.

[Snark Knight]

I don't think Mac is God because I think he'd be more active in the Denarian story line.  It would be very subtle, of course.  But he seems more involved with the Sidhe, Outsiders, and Demonreach possibly.

Involvement with the Sidhe fits the Manannan Mac Lir theory well.

[raidem]

We have precedence in Abrahamic religions that God does and can walk the Earth, so it isn't entirely out of reason for God to walk on Earth in Dresden Files.  So, it is plausible for Mac to be a disguised God.  Even if Mac is God, he may have multiple disguises such that not even Vadderung or Mab know Mac is God, they may believe him to be something else, just another of other masks God uses when walking the Earth.

At this point, without explanation, we read Genesis (32:24-25):
… a man wrestled with [Jacob] till daybreak. When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man.
We realize that Jacob was wrestling with God in a way that took Jacob to the limits of his strength – and beyond.

WEAKNESS TO BLESSING
In this crisis, Jacob’s strength is broken. All Jacob can do is hold on: “I will not let you go unless you bless me” (32:26). He can no longer grasp and take; he can only receive.
Jacob receives a new name and blessing (32:27-29). His new identity is now “Israel.” The meaning of this name is somewhat difficult to discern, but it probably means God prevails; he struggles with God; or God perseveres.
Bruce Waltke writes:
… at daybreak [Jacob’s] antagonist changes his name, and Jacob comprehends that the man is none other than God. Finally, as the sun rises above him (32:31), he walks away, better, limps away, a new man.

[Kindler]

I can buy Jim being inspired by the Amber Chronicles, or using some ideas based on them, but there is zero chance that the Dresden Files is literally connected to another series altogether, for the same reasons that the Hulk won't actually show up, even if he has Hercules's mantle.

Dresden, the Cinder Spires, and Alera—the three series Jim actually has intellectual property rights for—maybe, but definitely not something that he doesn't own. Speculation in that direction is a dead end.

You can draw as many parallels as you like, and that's perfectly valid, but Corwin is not going to show up in the Dresden Files any more than Cyclops.

[jonas]

I can buy Jim being inspired by the Amber Chronicles, or using some ideas based on them, but there is zero chance that the Dresden Files is literally connected to another series altogether, for the same reasons that the Hulk won't actually show up, even if he has Hercules's mantle.

Dresden, the Cinder Spires, and Alera—the three series Jim actually has intellectual property rights for—maybe, but definitely not something that he doesn't own. Speculation in that direction is a dead end.

You can draw as many parallels as you like, and that's perfectly valid, but Corwin is not going to show up in the Dresden Files any more than Cyclops.

exactamundo.

[raidem]

You can draw as many parallels as you like, and that's perfectly valid, but Corwin is not going to show up in the Dresden Files any more than Cyclops.

Corwin, Nevada already shows up in the Dresden Files after Harry, Susan go through the Ways to reach the Reds wharehouse in Changes and find themselves at a ghost town.  Jim has admitted he borrowed travel through the Ways from Amber, so we already have "Corwin" showing up in Dresden Files, but as a place instead of a person.  This "Corwin" is also a place Maggie Sr. visited.

As to other sources, the Fetches impersonate wellknown scary movie characters, we have references to Star Wars and Star Trek, we are going to have a Book titled after a Star Trek episode "Mirror Mirror".  I wouldn't be to sure that we won't have "Corwin" show up without him necessarily being named as such.

Now, as far as Luke=Lucifer goes, or Merlin son of Corwin, son of 'God', it was just an longshot idea.  I do like the idea though that Jim is using some templates from Amber in his DF creations, though these templates may be better attributed to AmberMush rather than the Amber Chronicles as AmberMush has content that isn't strictly copyrighted but that is player creations.

“The hallway on the other side is full of dangerous levels of methane and carbon monoxide, among other gases. The mixture appears to be volatile, and in the other side you can never be sure exactly which energies might or might not trigger an explosion. Forty-two walking steps to the far end, which opens on a ridge outside Corwin, Nevada.” There was a moment of silence, and then the same voice began to speak again, panting, shaking, and out of breath. “Notation: The hallway is not entirely abandoned. Something tried to grab me as I came through.” She coughed several times. “Notation secundus: Don’t wear a dress the next time you need to go to Corwin, dummy. Some farmer’s going to get a show.”

[Kindler]

Things like that are homages, references, or in-jokes, and a reference to a town called "Corwin" is not a connection any more than dropping a line from "They Live" in the movie theater in Proven Guilty was. It's more than a long shot. It's a legal problem that Jim cannot (and wouldn't want to) overcome.

Like I said, you can draw tons of parallels between Amber and the Dresden Files—you might even be able to use those parallels to predict future events—but there isn't a crossover. There legally can't be.

Maybe something like what you're suggesting happened, and God in the Dresden Files is just the guy who made this universe. But he won't be Corwin, or any character from the Amber Chronicles, the Marvel or DC Universes, or Star Trek. He or she (let's face it, with the DF and Harry's luck, God's probably a female, if she has a gender at all) will be an original creation made by Jim for the Dresden Files.

Assuming Jim can and has the desire to overcome the intellectual property issues surrounding this, if you're right, it wouldn't make sense. Even importing a character Jim created himself in AmberMUSH wouldn't fit with the Dresden Files's existing canon. It would be foolish to even try to do so, because it would require far, far more effort to justify than to make something new, and offers absolutely nothing of value to the vast majority of his readers, who have no idea what AmberMUSH is. Cameos are supposed to make a significant cross-section of your fanbase squeal in delight, like if Jayne Cobb showed up in Dollhouse. And honestly, making a character from another series altogether God would just confuse or infuriate the vast, overwhelming, near-total majority of people reading the book. Are we to be expected to read an entirely different book series by a different author with a different publisher in order to understand the backstory for a critically important character?

Please don't take this as a personal attack; it's not. I just think that theorizing like this isn't worth it.

On the other hand, I invite you to write fanfiction about this to your heart's content; I'll read it.

[raidem]

I just think that theorizing like this isn't worth it.

I disagree and enjoy it.

The Corwin/God thought is only one unlikely but possible comparison of Amber/Dresden Files.  There are many more plausible scenarios in which a Corwin/nonGod persona sets up as a Barkeep in Chicago.  This isn't Mac as God, but something like a Corwin character.

[groinkick]

I just think that theorizing like this isn't worth it.
[/quote]

If we stopped theorizing what will be left of the forum?  Nothing left to talk about.

[jonas]

The metaphor can only be stretched soooo far before it's beating a dead horse.

[Kindler]

I disagree and enjoy it.

Okay. You do you.

If we stopped theorizing what will be left of the forum?  Nothing left to talk about.

I didn't say to stop theorizing. I meant that this type of theorizing (crossovers between totally different, separate intellectual properties with zero chance of ever happening within the series) isn't particularly useful or enlightening. Like I said, parallels are perfectly fine, useful to others, and can be rather enlightening, but that's different from building hypotheses based on a different author's character showing up within the story's main canon.

I might be able to buy a crossover short story, on the other hand, but not the core of the Dresden Files novels.

And Raidem, I promise you, if this winds up being true, I will be the first person in line getting ready to kiss your ring. If you don't happen to have a ring, I will provide a particularly fancy one.

[raidem]

I pursue this line of inquiry for multiple reasons, most of it is just to look at the series through another lens like I have by adopting the Murphy=Mab theory.  I added further intrigue into the series by postulating a familial relationship between Harry, Murphy, and Marcone with Marcone's origin based in some future.  Further adding to the complex timeline, I proposed a Nicodemus whose descendants include Harry.

Now, after I pretty much added enough complexity within Dresden Files for the purposes of my rereads, I started looking elsewhere at influences upon Jim when he was creating the series and see if I could incorporate elements of them into the series.  So that is what I'm doing.  I don't have a DF book to read so I do this in the meantime.

[WereElephant]

I didn't say to stop theorizing. I meant that this type of theorizing (crossovers between totally different, separate intellectual properties with zero chance of ever happening within the series) isn't particularly useful or enlightening. Like I said, parallels are perfectly fine, useful to others, and can be rather enlightening, but that's different from building hypotheses based on a different author's character showing up within the story's main canon.

I'm with you there. I like the sandbox Butcher has made, and while there are cool things in other authors' playgrounds, adding them into this sandbox feels too cluttered and confusing. It also dilutes the concentrated Dresdenium too much for me. Now, drawing parallels based on templates and mechanics is cool, whether its comparing the magic system with another universe or inferring who might do what based on mythology, but at the end of the day, I hope to see Butcher come up with something unique. And so far he has. Sure, there are references to things out the wazoo, but everything has the distinctive seal of Dresden's originality on it. A seal that looks an awful lot like a scorch mark and smells both like sulfur and frost, somehow.

[groinkick]

I didn't say to stop theorizing. I meant that this type of theorizing (crossovers between totally different, separate intellectual properties with zero chance of ever happening within the series)

Well the thing is, Jim has flat out said he will take an idea from somewhere else and put a new coat of paint on it.  For example the the Zerg from StarCraft and the Codex series.  He took them, gave them a new coat of paint and used them.  I'm not saying that any theory in particular is correct, but it's not outside the realm of possibility that you can connect dots within the dresdenverse based on another story if Jim used it for inspiration.