Who will die in Peace Talks but return in Mirror Mirror? Theories

[groinkick]

I was talking to my brother and he said he thinks Marcone will die in Peace Talks.  I didn't think so because I think he'll make it to the BAT.  Then he mentioned that maybe he'd die, but then in Mirror Mirror that Marcone would return with Harry.  I thought it was a possibility.


So who do you see as a possible victim in Peace Talks that could make a return to Harry's reality in Mirror Mirror?

I know it's been done before but if not a death from Peace Talks, maybe someone who died in an earlier book?

[KurtinStGeorge]

I think the obvious choice is Ebenezer.  At some point the hero has to lose his mentor, and in this case Eb was not only Harry's role model, he's the guy who gave Harry political cover from the Merlin and gave Harry insight into the workings of the Senior Council.  Any knowledge Harry has picked up from Luccio, Ramirez, the Gatekeeper and others has been in passing, it's not been in depth.  If Harry's status as the Winter Knight; make that Mab's chosen Knight, now gives him a measure of protection from the machinations of some members of the Senior Council; because no one with a brain wants to cross Mab, then Eb's plot armor; if such a thing exists or existed, is gone.

On the other hand Jim might want to surprise us and kill off someone totally unexpected.  Their death might even be what Harry has to investigate. 

An alternative is the leader of a major supernatural power dies and threatens to unbalance the supernatural world just when peace talks are getting started, whether Harry has to investigate that death or not.  So I can see Lord Raith taking the dirt nap in this book.  Could Lara and House Raith maintain their hold on power?  What would this mean for Thomas and Justine?  The answer to the first question is yes.  Lara would probably let someone from one of the other Houses kill her father just so she could show everyone she has learned Lord Raith's kiss of death trick. 

So let me state that in Mirror Mirror there were no peace talks so whoever dies at that time is alive in the Alt-Harry's world.  Maybe Lord Raith is still the actual ruler of House Raith and not a figurehead, but more interesting would be Harry getting to talk to Ebenezer one last time.  Well, after Eb stops trying to kill Harry or bring him before the Council.

[Kindler]

I'd like to be surprised. Molly would be interesting, and pretty evil of Jim, so I think it's a possibility, though I'd prefer to learn more about what being a Winter Lady means before the plot gets her out of it.

Carlos might be a lot of fun. I think he might be the easiest, story-wise, to to replace with an alt-universe clone.

Hmm. An original Luccio, who wasn't bodyswapped by Corpsetaker, might be pretty dope. It'd give Harry an opportunity to get him a fancy sword to match his Knighthood.

[WereElephant]

The most devastating for Dresden would probably be Murphy. I do think her days are numbered.

[Rasins]

The most devastating for Harry would be Maggie, but I agree, Murphy would be a close second.

Plus, I can't see Jim writing Maggie's death.

[Quantus]

I generally expect Susan to be in Mirror Mirror as a full Rampire.

I think it's likely McCoy will bite it in PT, but I dont know if he'd come back for MM or if that Para-Harry would have already had to face the Blackstaff down.  I dont think he could go that Dark-Hat and not see McCoy come to stop him. 

Unless...McCoy was EVIL THE WHOLE TIME!!!!

[groinkick]

Susan coming back as a full on Red Court vamp could be interesting.

#1.  The Red Court could make a return with her as it's Queen.
#2.  She could go after Harry's daughter when she's older, causing problems for Harry and a daughter who wants to be with her mother (or her Red vamp virtual clone)
#3.  Red Court vamp Susan being a big player in the BAT.

[Rasins]

Susan coming back as a full on Red Court vamp could be interesting.

#1.  The Red Court could make a return with her as it's Queen.
#2.  She could go after Harry's daughter when she's older, causing problems for Harry and a daughter who wants to be with her mother (or her Red vamp virtual clone)
#3.  Red Court vamp Susan being a big player in the BAT.

THAT would be a horrifying twist. 

I LIKE IT

[Kindler]

While I like the idea of seeing Evil Suzie, I've kinda been hoping that we're done with the Red Court. They served as either the main villainous force or the backdrop villainous force for ten books. There's been enough buildup with the Fomor that I'm looking forward to getting some weirder, more Lovecraftian antagonists going forward.

I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Evil Susan back closer to the BAT, and maybe serving as part of the Evil Team of Evil in that trilogy, of course. I'd be good with that. Just not the whole Red Court, I hope.

And Groinkick, you're right about the split loyalties; (SPOILER FOR A MAJOR VAMPIRE SERIES THAT JUST ENDED)

(click to show/hide)

That's exactly what happened in the last couple seasons of The Strain.

I hope it'd be handled in a less annoying way (the above felt so contrived and stupid, because those vampires are real monsters; think Red Court without their flesh masks).

[Quantus]

While I like the idea of seeing Evil Suzie, I've kinda been hoping that we're done with the Red Court. They served as either the main villainous force or the backdrop villainous force for ten books. There's been enough buildup with the Fomor that I'm looking forward to getting some weirder, more Lovecraftian antagonists going forward.

I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Evil Susan back closer to the BAT, and maybe serving as part of the Evil Team of Evil in that trilogy, of course. I'd be good with that. Just not the whole Red Court, I hope.

And Groinkick, you're right about the split loyalties; (SPOILER FOR A MAJOR VAMPIRE SERIES THAT JUST ENDED) I hope it'd be handled in a less annoying way (the above felt so contrived and stupid, because those vampires are real monsters; think Red Court without their flesh masks).

Supposedly the point of Divergence between the Main storyline and the MirrorMirrorVerse happened somewhere in Grave Peril, so I doubt we'd be able to escape some Red Court involvement in it (unless wiping out the race is something the two dresdens have in common)

[DonBugen]

To be honest, the only character who I really think there’s a chance, thematically, of coming back with Dresden is Molly.  She’s been the only character who we’ve repeatedly seen tied to multiple potential futures; the reader has already been trained to think of her as having a number of different potential futures, and it seems fairly clear to me that she’ll feature prominently in Mirror Mirror, judging from Dresden’s dream sequence in Skin Games.

But for Molly 2 to come over, it wouldn’t be because the first Molly died in Peace Talks.  No; Winter Lady Molly’s death would be a slow, metaphoric one; a death of the old self as she slowly but surely succumbs to have her personality and soul overwritten by the power of Winter, until she’s nothing but a cruel, sadistic shell of her former self.  Alternate Molly then serves as a counterpoint: this is what I could have been, Harry, if you had only chosen differently.

[peregrine]

Susan as full on Rampire would be interesting.  But as Queen?  I don't see that happening.  One of the very youngest of Rampires getting that position?  Hard to imagine.

[groinkick]

Susan as full on Rampire would be interesting.  But as Queen?  I don't see that happening.  One of the very youngest of Rampires getting that position?  Hard to imagine.

I said "The Red Court could make a return with her as it's Queen."  I meant that in Harry's realm if Susan returned with him she could restart the Red Court.  She would be the oldest since she'd be the first of the new Red Court.  With everyone's focus being on the Fomor she'd be able to turn a lot of people into Red Court vamps without being noticed.

[Avernite]

To be honest, the only character who I really think there’s a chance, thematically, of coming back with Dresden is Molly.  She’s been the only character who we’ve repeatedly seen tied to multiple potential futures; the reader has already been trained to think of her as having a number of different potential futures, and it seems fairly clear to me that she’ll feature prominently in Mirror Mirror, judging from Dresden’s dream sequence in Skin Games.

But for Molly 2 to come over, it wouldn’t be because the first Molly died in Peace Talks.  No; Winter Lady Molly’s death would be a slow, metaphoric one; a death of the old self as she slowly but surely succumbs to have her personality and soul overwritten by the power of Winter, until she’s nothing but a cruel, sadistic shell of her former self.  Alternate Molly then serves as a counterpoint: this is what I could have been, Harry, if you had only chosen differently.

It would probably cause Harry a lot of pain to see that, so in that sense it makes sense.

Bonus point if MirrorMolly convinces WinterMolly to ultimately return to the light (but, given all she's done, only in a heroic sacrifice) - we've heard consistently how the Knights of the Cross try to save souls, and Harry tries to let demi-villains like Asscher walk away - but only Sanja in the backstory seems to have truely done it. So we need an on-stage soul-save

[Rasins]

It would probably cause Harry a lot of pain to see that, so in that sense it makes sense.

Bonus point if MirrorMolly convinces WinterMolly to ultimately return to the light (but, given all she's done, only in a heroic sacrifice) - we've heard consistently how the Knights of the Cross try to save souls, and Harry tries to let demi-villains like Asscher walk away - but only Sanja in the backstory seems to have truely done it. So we need an on-stage soul-save

I'd hate to see Molly die in PT, only to be brought back in MM.  Mostly because it would disrupt the Winter Court again.

Personally, I see Eb dying in PT.  It'll be interesting to see who the Blackstaff (the actual staff) picks as it's next wielder.