Author Topic: What's Up With Marcone?  (Read 18347 times)

Offline Quantus

  • Special Collections Division
  • Needs A Life
  • ****
  • Posts: 25216
  • He Who Lurks Around
    • View Profile
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2018, 09:15:51 PM »
Attempted metaphorical paraphrase: so Generic Immortality changes the state of your essence from liquid to solid. This prevents you from changing yourself. Your character will not deepen, your virtues and vices will remain at a constant level, and your perspective becomes fixed. It doesn't mean you cannot choose to do X action over Y action, but that your basis for the final decision is always filtered through the same thought processes and emotional reactions. In exchange for these limitations, you become unable to die and gain a magical/cosmic power boost.

Mantled Immortality retains the stipulations above, but adds to them. For instance, Molly, in becoming the Winter Lady, is not only having her personality frozen (haha), it is being added to whilst being frozen. The tendencies of Winter (predation, coldness, pragmatism, ruthlessness) are slowly being added to who she is with every choice she makes to embrace those aspects. Once added, they are immutable. She will eventually become a completely solid entity of Winter, no longer capable changing and choosing as a Mortal would. In addition to these personality changes, because it's the Winter Mantle, the inability to deliberately lie has been ingrained into her, as has an essential vulnerability to cold iron. On the positive front, she gains a greater power boost than Generic Immortals would because of the additional restrictions of Winter and Fae.

Am I understanding correctly?
You got it right save for the difference between "Mantled Immortality" and "Generic Immortality".  Everything I describe would, as far as I understand things, would fall under the "Mantled Immortality" category.  What Id call "Generic Immortality" would be more like "Racial Immortality" a combination of Agelessess and Supernatural Durability, but they can be killed any day of the week (if you are strong enough, anyway).  Lara or Arianna or even Lea are all examples of beings that will not naturally Die, but that do not have actual Mantles and so can be killed outside of Conjunctions.  Of those example, only Lara has a Soul and is capable of Free Will, making her (and the White Court) an example of the Half-born that are still Human enough for some purposes (like being Winter Knight, for example).  By contrast, the Queens and any Eldests we've met (Cat Sith, Scarcrow, Eldest Gruff) are Mantled beings that would fall under the framework outlined above.  Also Ill add that per WOJ the Lying bit and the general focus on Duty and Obligation are not universal, those are particular to the Fae courts and fae Mantles.  In the case of a Darkhallow birthing a new Mantle, it would most probably fall under the "You Are What You Eat" law of things such that even if you went that route, youd be warped by the nature of the Power you ate (in DBs case it was Hunter spirits and lots of Death, likely to birth a naturally hostile entity) just as much as Molly is being pushed by the Winter nature of her mantle now. 

Note that I have no real idea how Angels fit into this, as they are the only known example of a truly immortal entity that also has a Soul (since they are ALL soul). 
<(o)> <(o)>
        / \
      (o o)
   \==-==/


“We’re all imaginary friends to one another."

"An entire life, an entire personality, can be permanently altered by just one sentence." -An Accidental Villain

Offline jonas

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1258
  • Surpassed Ms. Duck
    • View Profile
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2018, 09:57:50 PM »
I figure it has to do with some sort of Momentum and the actual span of Living Human Memory (which should include all the long-lived magic users, even Binder).  Hercules likely landed on the Hulk more because it was un-anchored at the time, rather than popular opinion being strong enough to change Current Mantle-holders.  Otherwise Santa would look more like his current Coca-Cola inspired pop image rather than the Sword-wielding viking hunter we met.
Landed on the Hulk due to the Hulk having what in common with Herc before[/] said anchorage? He'd not be the Hulk to become the Hulk if you see what I mean?
Quote from: A. Lanning
I'm sorry, My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.
Quote from: C Chaplin
...And so as long as men die, Liberty will never perish.

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7965
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2018, 12:03:18 AM »
On the subject of the Darkhollow, doing that for immortality is probably not unlike using a jumbo jet for a reading light.

Yes, it's one of the things that's included, but it's effectively a minor side-effect compared to everything else.

For all we know, all you need for just immortality is the Philosopher Stone (or the nearest equivalent) and the knowledge to make those potions.

I will also point out that Gard appears to be functionally immortal, but still reads as very human to Harry's senses.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline Quantus

  • Special Collections Division
  • Needs A Life
  • ****
  • Posts: 25216
  • He Who Lurks Around
    • View Profile
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2018, 10:26:08 AM »
Landed on the Hulk due to the Hulk having what in common with Herc before[/] said anchorage? He'd not be the Hulk to become the Hulk if you see what I mean?
Let try to restate that thought: THe WOJ said that the Hercules Mantle passed on to the Hulk and sort of exists in the Minds and Imaginations of people now.  I dont think that sort of drift association would have happened if the mantle had been held by an active host in that intervening Time.  If Hercules had Lived I dont think he would have turned Green.  The Mantle only got stuck in the Collective Imagination (never to return?) because it's host died and unlike the Fairy Queens his didnt apparently have such a structured mechanism for new host ascension. 


Quote from: 2013 KC signing Q&A
There are still mantles hanging around from Greek times. Greco-Roman mythology, **unintelligible** mythology. The gods are also around, in one form or another, most of them are around. Some of them got themselves killed. Because lets face it, some of those guys were idiots.
And I mean, you go back there and read, and it’s like, how could you possibly have survived that? The answer in the Dresden Files is that they didn't. They *unintelligible* up til they died. Sorry, Hercules, you can only go slamming your head into walls for so long. And if your mantle passed on to The Hulk, it sort of exists in people’s minds and imaginations now.
<(o)> <(o)>
        / \
      (o o)
   \==-==/


“We’re all imaginary friends to one another."

"An entire life, an entire personality, can be permanently altered by just one sentence." -An Accidental Villain

Offline Lost Merlin

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 425
    • View Profile
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #64 on: April 05, 2018, 12:32:04 PM »
FWIW, it was also theorized that part of the Normal Soul function of a person relies on that thing Bob talks about where Soul chunks get passed to loved ones through Hugs and whatnot; the idea is that normal mortals trade and regenerate Soul regularly, but becoming a Mantled Immortal would freeze the human Host's ability to regenerate their own Soul.  So they'd be left with a Finite supply rather than the renewable resource that Bob described to harry.  So if she wanted to keep her soul Longer, she needs to maintain as many Real human relationships (family, friends, etc) as possible so that she can get a regular influx of Soul through those interactions.  Thus, to loose her connection to her Mortal Life would be to LITERALLY loose her soul. 

I saw this and wondered if it would explain to a degree of why Mab had a 'Human Behaviors' BBF coach in Sarissa.  Her connection to Sarissa as mother and daughter allowed her to retain some of her humanity by keeping up a relationship that allowed her human soul a small anchor in the human world. 
From that I wonder what the fallout will be now that Mab no longer has that? Does she have any other decendents in the human world that she can anchor to or is she now going to drift even further in to the winter power. 

Offline Kindler

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1139
    • View Profile
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2018, 01:37:11 PM »
I saw this and wondered if it would explain to a degree of why Mab had a 'Human Behaviors' BBF coach in Sarissa.  Her connection to Sarissa as mother and daughter allowed her to retain some of her humanity by keeping up a relationship that allowed her human soul a small anchor in the human world. 
From that I wonder what the fallout will be now that Mab no longer has that? Does she have any other decendents in the human world that she can anchor to or is she now going to drift even further in to the winter power.

I think Molly can help with that for a while.

I'm currently picturing Molly inviting Mab to the Carpenters' Thanksgiving dinner, and enjoying the Man Out of Time tropes that are springing up.

Offline Lost Merlin

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 425
    • View Profile
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #66 on: April 05, 2018, 01:48:46 PM »
Do you think the familial connection was important for her anchor? or will any mortal contact work? And would does Molly have enough soul to count.  or maybe as you suggest just for a bit, but by then hopefully she has anchored Mab with her family?

As an aside for get the 'prince albert in a can' jokes can you imagine Charity and Mab fighting for Alpha female over dinner  :-\

Offline Kindler

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1139
    • View Profile
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #67 on: April 05, 2018, 02:09:00 PM »
I think that a familial connection makes a mortal anchor more effective. I doubt it's all that matters, but I think it does make a significant difference.

On the plus side, there are enough Carpenters for Molly to pretty much never run out of family. She's got, what, six siblings? Within one generation, she could have between six and thirty six nieces and nephews if they all start families of their own.

Offline WereElephant

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 158
    • View Profile
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #68 on: April 05, 2018, 02:26:54 PM »
I'm currently picturing Molly inviting Mab to the Carpenters' Thanksgiving dinner, and enjoying the Man Out of Time tropes that are springing up.

Imagine if she brought Kringle as a plus one...

Offline raidem

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5634
  • Duck's Apprentice
    • View Profile
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #69 on: April 05, 2018, 02:50:58 PM »
I think Mab should get invited to the Murphy's family reunion :)

Mab's knight and consort is after all in a relationship w/ Murphy.  And Harry has already been to one Murphy family reunion, why not another w/ his boss in tow.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 03:03:05 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline Kindler

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1139
    • View Profile
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2018, 04:52:25 PM »
Imagine if she brought Kringle as a plus one...

No way, she'd bring Ramirez. And Uriel'd get to carve.

Offline WereElephant

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 158
    • View Profile
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #71 on: April 05, 2018, 05:14:35 PM »
No way, she'd bring Ramirez. And Uriel'd get to carve.

I meant Mab bring Kringle as a plus one in response to Molly's invitation.

Offline Quantus

  • Special Collections Division
  • Needs A Life
  • ****
  • Posts: 25216
  • He Who Lurks Around
    • View Profile
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2018, 05:25:42 PM »
I meant Mab bring Kringle as a plus one in response to Molly's invitation.
Somehow I think that sort of thing would be way too complicated.  Between Mab and Kringle, I mean. Nothing is every simply, or casual, or unimportant with those two.  So together there would inevitably be SOME sort of bargain, and knowledge/power brochuring going on.  I almost think they literally CANT just show up to a BBQ and have a good time (Sarissa training nothwithstanding). 
<(o)> <(o)>
        / \
      (o o)
   \==-==/


“We’re all imaginary friends to one another."

"An entire life, an entire personality, can be permanently altered by just one sentence." -An Accidental Villain

Offline Kindler

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1139
    • View Profile
Re: What's Up With Marcone?
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2018, 08:02:12 PM »
I meant Mab bring Kringle as a plus one in response to Molly's invitation.

Oh that's way funnier.