What's Up With Marcone?

[Mr. Death]

Well, I'm really not in the camp of him having supernatural roots that have no effect on him.  I believe these supernatural roots are what is partly why mab, Odin, Hades have taken notice of him.

You are assuming his parentage is something nobody knows about, nobody brings up, nobody notices, and has no affect on him and his life.  That is a huge assumption that is false.  We only see via Harry so we don't know what other characters know. And I'm sure marcone's parents had an effect on his life.

False except that...

Nobody's brought it up or noticed it, and it appears to have had no effect that isn't explained by all the things we already know about.

To go even further, we are limited to seeing via Harry's viewpoint only for a few days every span of months up to a year.

And all of Marcone's accomplishments are already readily explained by the things we've already seen, and do not need attribution to unseen, unmentioned, unhinted at faerie-family nepotism.

[WereElephant]

The overall opinion appears to be that Marcone is a vanilla mortal who displays extraordinary tenacity and cleverness without any supernatural lineage, magical advantages, or other paranormal attributes. There could theoretically be something about him yet to be revealed, but the absence of it showing up in a soul gaze and the lack of reference to such a trait from a third party seem to indicate not.

Marcone has a large shadow. Underworld lord, Freeholding lord, etc. He has big ambitions. These ambitions tend to be realized long term. He can't be the only one to think big like this, though. Are there other Marcone equivalents across the globe? Mortals who have built small, clandestine empires that interact with the supernatural on a regular basis? If not, why? What's different about Marcone?

[Kindler]

I kinda hope we find out that Marcone is using the Nevernever to expand his smuggling activities.

Good point about the soulgaze, WereElephant. That should have revealed any supernatural elements. Though I think we all know that Harry's description of Marcone having a Tiger Soul is a clue that Marcone is the progenitor of the Warriorborn, whom we meet in the Cinder Spires, thousands of years after the Dresden Files takes place. (/joke).

[Rasins]

The overall opinion appears to be that Marcone is a vanilla mortal who displays extraordinary tenacity and cleverness without any supernatural lineage, magical advantages, or other paranormal attributes. There could theoretically be something about him yet to be revealed, but the absence of it showing up in a soul gaze and the lack of reference to such a trait from a third party seem to indicate not.

Marcone has a large shadow. Underworld lord, Freeholding lord, etc. He has big ambitions. These ambitions tend to be realized long term. He can't be the only one to think big like this, though. Are there other Marcone equivalents across the globe? Mortals who have built small, clandestine empires that interact with the supernatural on a regular basis? If not, why? What's different about Marcone?

I suppose that they didn't see an advantage in signing onto the Unseelie Accords.  There are rights AND obligations to such a thing.

[KurtinStGeorge]

What's different about Marcone?

Aside from the fact Marcone learned the supernatural world was real and that he might find ways to mitigate its dangers and co-opt its abilities there might not be much difference between Marcone and some other smart, tough and ambitious leaders.  There have been many capable leaders in world history but only a few are remembered like a Genghis Khan and Alexander the Great.  People like that often have timing on their side that they as individuals have no control over. 

Even if I look at a non-despot like Abraham Lincoln, look at some of the elements that had to line up for him to come into power.  An old established political party; the Whigs, that Lincoln was a member of, self destructed in a manner that is too complex to describe here, but it allowed someone who was at most a local Whig leader in his home state to join a new more radical party (the Republicans) and leap frog to the top partially because there was no established hierarchy in the new party to keep him down.  Plus, the opposition Democratic party split in two in 1860; again in a manner too complex to go into.  Today in the U.S. when a presidential election comes near there is often talk of the possibility of a third party candidate.  Could one of the minor parties make a dent or could some charismatic person chose the third party route and screw things for one of the major parties?  Abraham Lincoln had the benefit of running in a four-way election in 1860, where every candidate took a significant portion of the vote.  This is a situation Lincoln had absolutely no power to create, but he soon realized it was a situation he could exploit.  You can read about the campaign of 1860 to learn the details of that time.

Now look at Marcone as a comparison.  He had no way of knowing that a war in the supernatural world was brewing that would upend the established order.  He couldn't have known that by establishing a stable criminal empire in Chicago he was interfering in the plans of the Black Council.  He couldn't have known that there would be other supernatural powers who might want to help him.  He was smart, energetic and determined enough to put clues together and learn what was happening around him and take advantage of the opportunities that were presented to him.  However, remember that Marcone had to learn and make mistakes to consolidate his position.  He first tried to recruit Harry to help him in Fool Moon.  If Marcone had been fully clued in he should have gone straight to Vaderrung.  I think this early groping for a solution to his supernatural problems is a strong indication that Marcone is a vanilla mortal.

[Quantus]

I think Marcone will remain a vanilla Mortal (unless and until he gets killed, at which point all bets are off).  Like Murphy I think he serves to show that Mortals can and do stand up to and beside the Supernatural world.  I also think he is going to be a King..."not the King we want but maybe the King we need"  (to paraphrase a meme or something).  A king that Odin would be proud of...

[jonas]

The only WOJ we have on it only says that both Harry and Elaine had the potential to be Starborn, and that for that purpose their birthdays (a few months apart) were close enough which ruled out Harry's Halloween birthday being significant.  Nowhere has it been said there are more, let alone millions.

The crazy thing is, around the KC signing when I was more active I either read or listened to a ton of Woj I can no longer seem to locate... If i'd known it would become so scarce i'd have done more to preserve what i'd found. Honestly though there are tidbit's in old, old links already transcribed the original scribe had seen no importance to but which I did. I doubt that's one of them of course, but i'd never, ever had trouble with woj before that time period.
* I even thought griff had made a thread on it, but I could be confusing that with his statistical thing on wikifandom.

[Talby16]

Marcone has a large shadow. Underworld lord, Freeholding lord, etc. He has big ambitions. These ambitions tend to be realized long term. He can't be the only one to think big like this, though. Are there other Marcone equivalents across the globe? Mortals who have built small, clandestine empires that interact with the supernatural on a regular basis? If not, why? What's different about Marcone?

One of the biggest differences is that Marcone is in Chicago. Chicago is one of the major crossroads of the world leading to a higher rate of supernatural occurrences. Of course, it is also home to a certain wizard who has a pretty strong moral code. It is only natural that Harry and Marcone would come into conflict and unless Marcone wants to pick up and move to a different city it is also only natural that Marcone would research his opposition in order to gain the upper hand. This would lead to the discovery of the supernatural world and Marcone saw the chance to make a bigger splash and more profit and took  advantage of it.

[Rasins]

One of the biggest differences is that Marcone is in Chicago. Chicago is one of the major crossroads of the world leading to a higher rate of supernatural occurrences. Of course, it is also home to a certain wizard who has a pretty strong moral code. It is only natural that Harry and Marcone would come into conflict and unless Marcone wants to pick up and move to a different city it is also only natural that Marcone would research his opposition in order to gain the upper hand. This would lead to the discovery of the supernatural world and Marcone saw the chance to make a bigger splash and more profit and took  advantage of it.

That and the fact that Bony Tony got hold of (at least in part) a Supernatural Being's treasure hoard.  That would have clued Marcone in too.

[Talby16]

That and the fact that Bony Tony got hold of (at least in part) a Supernatural Being's treasure hoard.  That would have clued Marcone in too.

Excellent point.

[Quantus]

That and the fact that Bony Tony got hold of (at least in part) a Supernatural Being's treasure hoard.  That would have clued Marcone in too.

True but that was /years/ later, long after he'd been clued in and had Monoc on his payroll for a while. 

Nah, I think it's simpler than that.  Mama Murphy was clued in purely by proximity to the CPD Black Cats. Marcone would simply NOT allow a police division that produces so much obvious Fiction to go investigated.  At minimum such an outfit would be prime blackmail material; but surprise surprise when he discovered that Vampires are actually real and his current criminal Rivals.  I think it very likely that long before Marcone started taking the Yellow Pages Wizard seriously, his organization had some run-in's with rival Muscle that was inexplicably durable and/or fanged, and he wanted to know why. 

OR..It was all Vadderung. We dont actually know when Marcone and Monoc connected, only that he didnt yet have Gard back in SF.  But I could easily see the All-Father taking the pulling strings to build up the Good King Johnny into something useful, and given his general MO he could have been doing it as far back as Persephone or earlier

[Rasins]

Dead Beat occurs 5 years after Storm Front.  We should assume that Marcone didn't become aware of the Supernatural world much before Storm Front.

IIRC, in Dead Beat, Marcone said that Bony Tony had acquired the locker that had contained the Word of Kemmler sometime before Dead Beat.  Further, Marcone had given Tony permission to liquidate the contents, after Marcone got the pick of the lot.  The impression I got was that this transaction between Tony and Marcone was some time before DB.  It could even have been years before hand.

I think Marcone learned about the truth of the Supernatural not long before SF, due to Victor Sells activities, but confirmed it with Harry and the Soulgaze.  After that, Tony's revelation to Marcone just let him know that the scope of the supernatural was much larger than he previously knew.  That is why he finally sought out the services of Monoc.

[peregrine]

That and the fact that Bony Tony got hold of (at least in part) a Supernatural Being's treasure hoard.  That would have clued Marcone in too.

Well, it has a magical book.  But so does Artemis Bock, the guy who has a book that includes a spell for summoning the Erlking.  Doesn't make him a supernatural being.

[Quantus]

Dead Beat occurs 5 years after Storm Front.  We should assume that Marcone didn't become aware of the Supernatural world much before Storm Front.

For the sake of argument (the Bony Tony connection) or do you have any specific that limits him to recent (as of SF) introduction?  He knew enough detail about the supernatural world to have learned of Soul Gazes, which Id think could conceivably take a lot longer than that (especially pre-Paranet)

Well, it has a magical book.  But so does Artemis Bock, the guy who has a book that includes a spell for summoning the Erlking.  Doesn't make him a supernatural being.

Eh, Bock had stocked a copy of a Published if rare book written by a prominent and living member of the White Council, it was only interesting because it turned out the Kemmlerites needed it for the Erlking.  Bony Tony found one of Kemmler's original manuscripts, specifically the one of the four that Kemmler had not widely shared, and which had been on the Council's Burn List since WWII.

[Mr. Death]

We don't know that Tony was looking for the Word of Kemmler. We just know it was part of an estate of someone reasonably wealthy.

It could've been the estate of someone very much on the supernatural side. Or it could've been the estate of someone's wealthy-but-loony aunt who had a taste for the occult.