Who will die in Peace Talks but return in Mirror Mirror? Theories

[peregrine]

The RPG disagrees with you on that part.  Given the various factions within the Court, if they could make more vampires fairly easily, surely someone would have tried that as a way to pull off a coup.

[Quantus]

There was a WOJ at one point, which I cannot find atm, that confirmed that there is a supernatural element to a Red's promotion to Nobility and that the ability to create new Ramps is tied to that, so for example Bianca was able to make new Ramps, but full-ramp susan would not have been able.  I remember it because it entire destroyed the vampirism theories I had at the time. 

[Lost Merlin]

There was a WOJ at one point, which I cannot find atm, that confirmed that there is a supernatural element to a Red's promotion to Nobility and that the ability to create new Ramps is tied to that, so for example Bianca was able to make new Ramps, but full-ramp susan would not have been able.  I remember it because it entire destroyed the vampirism theories I had at the time. 

Would that then kill the Red Court resurrection theories if the Ebb's weren't nobles? Or were they? I cannot remember if they were trying to turn Harry in Changes or if they wanted to take him to Adrianna. 

[Quantus]

Would that then kill the Red Court resurrection theories if the Ebb's weren't nobles? Or were they? I cannot remember if they were trying to turn Harry in Changes or if they wanted to take him to Adrianna.

I think (but do not know) they were high enough up in the ranks to likely qualify.  But they also seemed to be specialists to a certain extent, so they might have operated outside that part of the Court.

Either way it doesnt kill the notion entirely: the Eebs are by no means the only Red Court Vampires to ever be imprisoned in the NN, they are simply the example we know of.  Any Vampire held deep enough and/or locked down in the NN had a chance to survive

[Rasins]

The Ebbs were not nobles.  They even complained that they would never be welcomed into the inner circle, because they were not "of the blood".

[WereElephant]

Either way it doesnt kill the notion entirely: the Eebs are by no means the only Red Court Vampires to ever be imprisoned in the NN, they are simply the example we know of.  Any Vampire held deep enough and/or locked down in the NN had a chance to survive

How about a Ramp imprisoned on everyone's favorite island in Lake Michigan?

[Quantus]

How about a Ramp imprisoned on everyone's favorite island in Lake Michigan?

Hard to say...Demonreach is still technically on Earth as far as we know, transdimensional nature not-withstanding.  If anywhere on Earth could block such an attack it would have been Demonreach, but that attack was specifically chosen because it could break through some of the most powerful defenses on the planet, namely those around the Senior Council at Edinburgh

[WereElephant]

Hard to say...Demonreach is still technically on Earth as far as we know, transdimensional nature not-withstanding.  If anywhere on Earth could block such an attack it would have been Demonreach, but that attack was specifically chosen because it could break through some of the most powerful defenses on the planet, namely those around the Senior Council at Edinburgh

True. Although, it is believed that if Cowl had succeeded with the Darkhallow, he could have bulldozed Edinburgh. Based on Shagnasty and the Fae ladies having trouble with Demonreach, do we think he could have gotten through those defenses too? I'm unsure of the relative power levels of the two. Both are obviously prodigious, but are they both castles, or is one a castle and the other Minas Tirith?

[Quantus]

True. Although, it is believed that if Cowl had succeeded with the Darkhallow, he could have bulldozed Edinburgh. Based on Shagnasty and the Fae ladies having trouble with Demonreach, do we think he could have gotten through those defenses too? I'm unsure of the relative power levels of the two. Both are obviously prodigious, but are they both castles, or is one a castle and the other Minas Tirith?

We have one really nice if slightly outdated list of things we'd seen that could take Mab in a standing fight (not counting courtly assistance) and a Darkhallow-empowered Cowl is specifically on that list, so he'd be at least an order of magnitude stronger than a Lady. 

That being said, Id suspect there is a vast difference between attacking Alfred and actually Breaching the Well itself.  Finishing the attack might have accomplished the other, but given the sorts of things that are supposedly stored in the Well, strong enough to ambiently leak a Ley Line, I assume it would take a whole lot more to poke a hole in it with a single attack, even one as powerful as that curse.  From a purely Power-balance standpoint there is almost no way the Red Court's fodder that was fueling the bloodline curse would have been anywhere close to the equivalent Life energy in the entire Population of greater Chicago, so it makes sense that the darkhallow would be on a higher level than the Curse

[Rasins]

Couple of points Q ...

The DH in DB would only have taken out 2 or 3 square miles of life.  I know, that's still a lot, but not the entire population of Chicago.

One theory that I believe to be true is that Cowl was seeking the power to fulfill a deal with the Reds, that when he got the power he'd break through the wards at the Wouncil's headquarters.

Now that's not to say that him with the power wouldn't be like hitting a fly with a sledgehammer, but I'm not so sure he'd be THAT much more powerful.

Another theory was that the blood sacrifices were empowering a spell that COULD punch through the wards. 

Again, all that being said, I believe that DR is FAR more impregnable than Edinburgh. 

[Quantus]

Couple of points Q ...

The DH in DB would only have taken out 2 or 3 square miles of life.  I know, that's still a lot, but not the entire population of Chicago.

Fair Point.  Harry said everything within a mile which Im taking as a radius, or 3.14 sq. mi.  At a population Density of 11,898.29/sq mi.  So that puts a rough number required for a Mab-beating Darkhallow at a bit shy of 40,000.  I know the reds had something of a stranglehold on South American, I honestly dont know if they'd be able to transport and Disappear that many people or not.
 

One theory that I believe to be true is that Cowl was seeking the power to fulfill a deal with the Reds, that when he got the power he'd break through the wards at the Wouncil's headquarters.

Harry's theory, so I give it a good deal of weight, though I guess he can still be wrong.   

Now that's not to say that him with the power wouldn't be like hitting a fly with a sledgehammer, but I'm not so sure he'd be THAT much more powerful.

Another theory was that the blood sacrifices were empowering a spell that COULD punch through the wards. 

The comparison Im more looking at is that Cowl(DH)>Mab, and after CD Im convinced that Mab couldnt pop Demonreach.

Again, all that being said, I believe that DR is FAR more impregnable than Edinburgh.

Concur.

Curious: There's that line in CD where Mab shows up tense, asked teh Wardens permission, then kinda sorta apoligizes to Alfred.  She relaxes when he acknowledges it as if he lowered a weapon.  I wonder if she was worried that Alfred would view her and Maeve as essentially the same thing (being chunks of the same proto-mantle or whatever the deal is), and was relieved to see he'd developed the nuance to deal with diplomatically. 

[Rasins]

Curious: There's that line in CD where Mab shows up tense, asked teh Wardens permission, then kinda sorta apoligizes to Alfred.  She relaxes when he acknowledges it as if he lowered a weapon.  I wonder if she was worried that Alfred would view her and Maeve as essentially the same thing (being chunks of the same proto-mantle or whatever the deal is), and was relieved to see he'd developed the nuance to deal with diplomatically.

I took it as something on many levels.  Mab recognizing DR's dominion over this spot of the planet and paying the requisite respect.  Also, we don't know what they "talked" about while Harry was recovering.  It could have been something like, DR didn't like a being of power being present as long as she was, without being interred.  And she was asking permission to AGAIN enter his domain.  ALSO, her letting him know she was there, not to fight him, but to help resolve the issue at hand.