Author Topic: Magical Tattoos  (Read 10908 times)

Offline Dknowles323

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Magical Tattoos
« on: March 17, 2018, 04:17:40 PM »
I apologize if this has already been asked, but I wonder about the usage of tattoos for magical (wizarding foci) purposes in the Dresden-Verse.

Evidence that this may in fact be possible.

1. Magical Theory within the Dresden Files leads to that in a pinch, a heavy duty spell that normally requires expensive jewels, could be done by a practiced wizard with a few rocks and a circle.

2. It is based on confidence, so that if you believe your Tattoo can hold spellwork, it has a chance to work.

3. Signs and sigils can be made on just about anything or everything but often focus are made on things like Blasting Rods and Staffs, and other enchanted items.

4. We have seen tattoos used in the Brotherhood with Susan to control her half vampire nature.


So, with this established, would it be theoretically possible for someone skilled enough with magic, instead of carrying a blasting rod, or staff, instead have intricate tattoos up and down their body to act as magical foci to the same effect? And if so, why haven't we possibly seen it yet?

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2018, 04:51:57 PM »
Welcome to the boards!

As this is the Books section and not the Spoliers section, I'll refrain from mentioning details, but there's one character in one of the most recent books that had magical tattoos.

We've speculated on it plenty.  I'm not if there's a consensus on the usefulness, but I believe most agree it's possible.

Offline Dknowles323

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2018, 05:01:10 PM »
I wasn't sure if it would qualify as needing to be in the spoilers section, as so far I'm only poking at Magical Theory as a whole with what has been introduced. Though I've read all the books and I don't recall someone besides The Brotherhood using it to restrain them. However if I need to move it to Spoilers for a more in depth discussion, I would be happy to do so.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2018, 06:08:45 PM »
I wasn't sure if it would qualify as needing to be in the spoilers section, as so far I'm only poking at Magical Theory as a whole with what has been introduced. Though I've read all the books and I don't recall someone besides The Brotherhood using it to restrain them. However if I need to move it to Spoilers for a more in depth discussion, I would be happy to do so.
I think the rule is no spoilers from the most recent book in the Books section.  I tend to be a little more careful because I figure folks new the series but not fully caught up might stumble in.

Still, I don't think there's anything necessarily spoilerish about the subject or concepts, so it's probably fine here.

Offline jonas

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2018, 06:12:29 PM »
Heck griff, i'm all caught up and I feel like I missed something cause I don't remember any magical tattoo bearers?(I mean, Susan did that thing with those things..... but that's not new enough to possibly be a spoiler)
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2018, 09:41:22 PM »
Heck griff, i'm all caught up and I feel like I missed something cause I don't remember any magical tattoo bearers?(I mean, Susan did that thing with those things..... but that's not new enough to possibly be a spoiler)
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Offline Dknowles323

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2018, 05:32:47 AM »
So we've established it can be done though it's rare. I'm sure there are upsides and downsides to it, which I'm curious on as well.

Obvious Downside, is once you have one created, it's kinda hard to change or redo. So it has to be perfect the first time. Granted, it'd be pretty hard to disarm someone whose got a spell work of a blasting rod on their arm instead of on a foci.

So, next bit of questioning comes down to speculation. How do you get it done? Does it have to be done by someone else? Does that person have to have the talent to put it in? Can someone else ink you and then you put power into it? Does it have to be a special kind of ink? Surely with tattoos being as old as they are, there has to be a reason that so far we've only seen one or two people do it at all.

What advantages could there be besides the obvious, what drawbacks? And what problems about how to go about it? I'm hoping for full theory here.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2018, 02:32:07 PM »
So we've established it can be done though it's rare. I'm sure there are upsides and downsides to it, which I'm curious on as well.

Obvious Downside, is once you have one created, it's kinda hard to change or redo. So it has to be perfect the first time. Granted, it'd be pretty hard to disarm someone whose got a spell work of a blasting rod on their arm instead of on a foci.

So, next bit of questioning comes down to speculation. How do you get it done? Does it have to be done by someone else? Does that person have to have the talent to put it in? Can someone else ink you and then you put power into it? Does it have to be a special kind of ink? Surely with tattoos being as old as they are, there has to be a reason that so far we've only seen one or two people do it at all.

What advantages could there be besides the obvious, what drawbacks? And what problems about how to go about it? I'm hoping for full theory here.
I've given it some thought because my fanfics are treading this water.  My take is that a practitioner should design the tattoo and have someone else apply it.  Otherwise you end up with shoddy work that's more prone to error.  But the professional has to be the best, no mistakes can be made, and they have to be trustworthy, because they're going to know intimate details of your crafting.

It'd probably require the work to be done in an empowered circle, to prevent any pain-induced magical incidents.  If the professional is using modern equipment, it'd need to be protected as well.  But if the practitioner needs to imbue the tattoo with power as they go, while still in the circle, then it'll probably require them to either use ancient tattooing methods, or an abundance of time and equipment.

Pros
 - You can't easily be disarmed (unless they, you know, disarm you).
 - You can travel lighter and easier.
 - Unless they know what to look for, or it's not as uncommon as we think, enemies might not realize what they are.
 - Passive spells (wards, protection) can be running at all times using just kinetic energy of movement.
 - Energy could be stored in a well-designed reservoir tattoo.
 - Metals (inherited silver, iron) and plants (wolfsbane, hawthorn root) known to weaken or hurt supernatural creatures could be used in the ink itself to hurt them if they touch you (although not all of that would necessarily be good for the bearer, either).

Cons
 - You'll probably have to refresh them regularly due to wizard healing.
 - You'll have to have someone you trust that much to help you.
 - A scar could disrupt your entire system (best case the casting fails, worse case your arm blows off).
 - Limits that might be pushed with an object that's expendable can't be pushed with body parts.
 - The physics probably wouldn't change so the strain (heat, pressure) would be on the flesh.
 - Improvements in the spell wouldn't be easy due to their permanent nature.
 - Extensive tattooing is going to alienate or isolate you from certain areas of modern society, so your occupation could be impacted.

Workarounds (most of which will be spoilers for future fanfics of mine)
 - Have a master or apprentice tattoo each other for reliability and trustworthiness, even if there's a slight dip in quality.
 - Magically prepare sheets of henna tattoos that can be applied prior to battle, but wouldn't be present all the time.
 - Use ultraviolet ink in the tattoos to cut down or eliminate visibility in daylight, but know that they'll glow in blacklight (and for cool effect, while casting)
 - Have an artistic sidekick that can repair damaged tattoos with careful precision.
 - Have overdeveloped designs to compensate for heat/pressure, channeling that energy into a reservoir (belt buckle-type but in tattoo form) that could be tapped when cut off from magic.
 - Use shakra point beliefs (canon in the series thanks to Bob) as baseline for tattoos using power inherent to everyone.

Offline YoungestGruff

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2018, 06:05:08 PM »
Presumably, you're referring to using tattoos as foci, and not just being St Giles style magical tattoos.

And I've totally wondered the same thing. But to add on to the list above, Harry has to renew his duster spells and - I think - his blasting rod and staff. Seems like a general rule of thumb that magical gear needs maintenance; add in that tattoos naturally fade, and it'll probably be very high-maintenance indeed, especially as you build up scar tissue.

Another thought, though, is the frequency with which Harry's tools get overloaded. They heat up, they explode, they do things that you really don't want subcutaneous ink blots to do. Tattoo a shield bracelet onto your forearm, and the flamethrower trick might just straight up amputate the hand.

Offline jonas

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2018, 06:11:26 PM »
I disagree one could have a reservoir within a tattoo. From what we've see of the spell put upon his staff it had one reservoir because it was one whole object. The rings actually had separate enchanted pieces loosely bound together through a twine. I predict doing such a thing with a tat would place the reserve source upon the one already present, your own life force. Breaking it down into more is not a simple matter of redoing the spell it would seem...
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 07:29:08 PM by jonas »
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2018, 11:44:29 PM »
I disagree one could have a reservoir within a tattoo. From what we've see of the spell put upon his staff it had one reservoir because it was one whole object. The rings actually had separate enchanted pieces loosely bound together through a twine. I predict doing such a thing with a tat would place the reserve source upon the one already present, your own life force. Breaking it down into more is not a simple matter of redoing the spell it would seem...
Hence the "overly developed" part.  I'm not saying it would be easy.  The idea of channeling face-melting heat and bone-crushing pressure into your skin sounds like a horrible idea.  But if you want to explore such potential uses of tattoos, we can at least consider methods.

Now maybe it's a combination of things.  Maybe there has to be an external reservoir; a set of rings that touch the tattoo via the fingers, and the energy channels through that to the storage. 

Or maybe energy can be dispelled from tattoos across the body like pressure release valves; spreading light and heat all over would be more bearable than having it focused on one spot.

Or maybe there's a way to have swirling tattoos pour into the person's reserve, like Harry drawing power in from outside.  Or into the chakras, where we've power be pulled from before.

Or maybe the symbols themselves can have a limited ability to store some (but not a lot of) power. 

Or maybe it can recycle the energy back into the casting.  If it's a shield, then an advanced design would channel the excess back into the shield itself.  It wouldn't be easy, but it might be possible.

Offline Quantus

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2018, 01:07:40 PM »
Per WOJ the main danger of magic tattoo's is that the emotions of the bearer would change the Enchantments.  There is also the ever-present issue with over-loading a spell which tends to physically damage the enchanted object.  When harry overloaded his blasting rod it exploded, and his first shield bracelet nearly melted to his wrist. Imagine the mess if either had been literally carved into his skin.


EDIT:  That being said, the primary danger to making a Soulfire based item per WOJ is that it would mean there exists an object with an actual chunk of your SOUL, which would be all kinds of dangerous if lost.  But that's not an issue with a Tattoo, I am curious if having a chunk of your Soul would make a more or less stable enchantment.
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Offline zetadog

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2018, 08:00:18 AM »
the tattoos are used as a focus, like the stuff the wizards carve into their wands and staffs and belt buckles.  like a mold for clay or molten metal.  the wizard or sorcerers magic is the clay or molten metal.
or a simple electronic device: the wizards magic is the electricity.

Offline exartiem

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2018, 10:31:02 PM »
Two major problems I see with tatts like that.  1, as Griffyn posted, one of the reasons for a blasting rod is to keep the fire away from the hand.  If you release fire directly from the skin, you could burn yourself.

Two, skin is elastic.  It stretches and twists.  If you deform the sigils, would it alter or disrupt the spell?  You would have to make sure your arm was in precisely the same position as when you got the tatt.  Another reason for putting the spells on solid objects.

Offline Azmodel

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Re: Magical Tattoos
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2018, 04:02:41 PM »
Doesn't Harry tattoo protective sigils into his duster? 

Granted, they're not foci for projecting aggressive spells such as a blasting rod, but lets set that specific instance aside and consider alternatives beyond the protection spells Dresden uses on his Duster.

Molly's wands that she uses to, among other things, focus her one-woman-rave spell showed no sign of exploding, nor even heating.  In such circumstances, whilst tattoos may not lend themselves to great utility in all circumstances, they may have utility for some circumstances/spells and for some wizards.

I believe that tattoos could act as Foci for mental magic, protection, and other less energy intensive spells. 

As to who tattoos them into you, that's a tougher one - Harry did his own work on the Duster, but I think most people would struggle to perfectly tattoo themselves, particularly on the forearms, further particularly on your off-hand.  And it'd be a sloooooooow process without the use of modern (ie electrical) tattoo machines.

It's a nifty thought though...