Questions about the power web.

[Ghostfreak]

Wanted to ask what is everyone's experience with the web power from paranet papers? I am considering taking it on a character I have in mind. But would like it to have a little more oomph to it, if that is even possible. Is it worth the 3 refresh? Is it a hinderance? Please share your thoughts and experiences for I am eager to hear your thoughts and ideas.

[Taran]

could you post the power please?  I don't know it.

[Ghostfreak]

Creature feature: Web (-2) you may spin a web like a spider, cover an area with sticky ectoplasmic goo or similar effect. Make a weapon attack. If the roll is successful, the target is subject to a block against movement, with a strength equal to to your weapon skill. A subsequent successful attack or an attack made while invoking an appropriate aspect, will convert this block to a grapple.

Sticky (-1) this upgrade to web allows you to place a Webbed aspect on the zone. While this aspect is in place all zone borders are increased by a value equal to your weapon skill.

[Taran]

Using the custom power,  Incite Effect, as a comparison.

-1 Incite effect: Web (affecting Weapons Skill)
   +2 to maneuvers and blocks when using your web-like powers
-1 Ranged upgrade:  Use your web from up to 3(2?) zones away

So, far, the power looks balanced except Incite effect gives you a +2 bonus which the Web power does not.  But Incite Effect does not allow grapples without an upgrade.

-1 Zone-Wide Upgrade(Incite Mass Effect).  The Web Power, as written seems weird.  Do you really need to increase it to a zone?  You should be able to affect a border with this power as-written.  But probably only one border and not all of them.  Incite Mass Effect is much more flexible.  Anything you can do to a single target, you can do to a zone or as a spray attack.  So you could block attacks at +2 and put it on a zone.

-1 Incite Restrictive Effect:  Allows grapples and damage.

So, Incite Effect would be a -3 or -4 power.

To be honest, I think a web power can be done easily with Breath Weapon.  Doesn't let you grapple, though.  Creating an aspect and invoking for effect can work or just putting up a block.

Personally, I don't like how Web is written.  Why use your set Weapon skill as a difficulty?  Most maneuvers require a skill roll that sets the difficulty (it's either sticky or fragile) and all grapples require an opposed roll.  Also, blocks don't require an accuracy roll.  You just set a block against movement and the opponent uses athletics to overcome the block - there's no 'to-hit' roll.  It seems to imply that the block stays until it is overcome (you don't have to re-do your block every round) butI think a block should last until the narrative justifies its removal.  Not sure if that's RAW, though.

[Ghostfreak]

Hmmm. Never thought about it like that. My dm does not allow custom powers but is open to stunts that can do cool things. Provided it makes sense from a story point of view. Because I found the power in book 3 an thought how cool it would be to apply to certain situations. Niche though they maybe. I thank you for your experienced thoughts. It was very much needed. Also, would there happen to be any cool stunts or tricks that I can do with a shield? I've been searching high and low but can't seem to find any. Or could you point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance.

[Sanctaphrax]

It seems to imply that the block stays until it is overcome (you don't have to re-do your block every round) butI think a block should last until the narrative justifies its removal.  Not sure if that's RAW, though.

It's not. By YS210, normally blocks last until the creator's next turn.

I'm pretty confident Web is meant to last longer. Otherwise, the Power basically has no reason to exist. Everyone can already make blocks against movement already, and the weird "if successful, strength = skill" set-up is mostly a drawback. Adding such a drawback makes a lot more sense on a lasting Power; it serves to prevent one amazing roll from permanently immobilising someone.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the Web's intended range is. Not very clearly written.

Also, would there happen to be any cool stunts or tricks that I can do with a shield? I've been searching high and low but can't seem to find any. Or could you point me in the right direction?

Found these on the wiki:

Shield Carrier: You know how to use a shield. Add one to your physical armour score as long as you are carrying a shield.
Phalanx Fighting: (Requires Shield Carrier) You know how to use a shield in a formation. Whenever you take a full defence action while carrying a shield, you may select two other characters in the same zone as you who have this stunt. Increase each of their physical armour scores by one until your next turn.

They're a little unexciting if you ask me, though. Armour stunts are a bit weak and full defence actions are rarely worth taking.

Maybe we can brainstorm something better. Do you have a specific image in mind?

[Ghostfreak]

I waas thinking something along the lines of Captain America and the like.  Or if there is anything better out there I can glean from, then please share. I am open to suggestions and ideas.

[Sanctaphrax]

Captain America throws his shield around a lot, right? It's a weapon in his hands.

I figure a shield is normally usable as a melee weapon with rating 1, maybe 2 if it's got spikes or something. A stunt that upgraded that made your shield weapon 3 and gave it a range of 1 zone would seem fair to me.

A shield is probably already justification enough to defend against ranged attacks with Weapons; if your GM doesn't agree, a stunt could address that.

[Taran]

I made a shield guy a long time ago.  I'll try to remember the stunts he had and throw in any additional ones I can think of:

Defender: If an ally in the same zone is hit with an attack, you can use your shield to block the attack.  It uses your next turn to do so.

(note: based on the Riposte stunt.  Originally, I had it so you had to roll a defense against the attack, but now that I look at it, since it uses your next action - IE: only once/round - for something that is, essentially, a reaction, I think it should just be auto-success.  Thoughts?)

Thrown Defense: (must have Defender)  Same as Defender except you can defend an ally within up to one(or two?)  zone(s) away.  You must throw your shield for this to work.

Mighty Leap: (must have Defender and a speed power)  Same as defender but you may also move your free supplemental move granted from your speed power to defend an ally.  (Example: supernatural speed lets you move 2 zones for free. provided there are no borders, you can defend an attack against an ally up to 2 zones away.   It uses your next action to do so.)

Shield Master: You are an expert at using a shield.  Add +2 to your defense and blocks when using a shield.

Save the Children!  When doing a block with your shield, you may protect all allies within a zone.  (by the rules, you can already affect multiple people with a single block, so maybe it's a useless stunt.  It might need an extra boost.)

Boomerang Shield: when you use your shield as a thrown weapon, it comes back to your hand.

Deflect Bullets:  If you successfully defend against a ranged attack with your shield, you may use your next action to immediately make an attack against another enemy within the same number of zones that the attack came from.  Use your weapon skill to roll accuracy and use the weapon value of the original attack.

[Sanctaphrax]

Defender: If an ally in the same zone is hit with an attack, you can use your shield to block the attack.  It uses your next turn to do so.

(note: based on the Riposte stunt.  Originally, I had it so you had to roll a defense against the attack, but now that I look at it, since it uses your next action - IE: only once/round - for something that is, essentially, a reaction, I think it should just be auto-success.  Thoughts?)

Riposte gets to be automatic because you've already made a successful roll. I don't think this should be automatically successful.

However, it could use a little extra juice. I'd make it a block. Something like...

Defender: Whenever someone in your zone is hit with a physical attack, you may sacrifice your next action to protect that character with a Weapons block. It applies to the attack that triggered it and to all subsequent attacks on that character until your next non-sacrificed action.

Thrown Defense: (must have Defender)  Same as Defender except you can defend an ally within up to one(or two?)  zone(s) away.  You must throw your shield for this to work.

Mighty Leap: (must have Defender and a speed power)  Same as defender but you may also move your free supplemental move granted from your speed power to defend an ally.  (Example: supernatural speed lets you move 2 zones for free. provided there are no borders, you can defend an attack against an ally up to 2 zones away.   It uses your next action to do so.)

Save the Children!  When doing a block with your shield, you may protect all allies within a zone.  (by the rules, you can already affect multiple people with a single block, so maybe it's a useless stunt.  It might need an extra boost.)

Boomerang Shield: when you use your shield as a thrown weapon, it comes back to your hand.

As far as I'm concerned, you could roll all these up into one stunt and it wouldn't be broken.

Shield Master: You are an expert at using a shield.  Add +2 to your defense and blocks when using a shield.

This might be a bit much, though. +2 defence alone is already a great stunt.

[Taran]

+1 defence and +2 blocks?
+1 defence and blocks?

[Ghostfreak]

Very nice indeed. I especially like the shield boomerang. Very useful indeed. The dm allowed me to make a stunt to use my armor value as the weapon grade so that helped alot.

My shield is my sword: armor value is also treated as the weapon grade.

Would a +2 to maneuvers and blocks with my shield to strong or no?

[Sanctaphrax]

+1 defence and +2 blocks?

Would a +2 to maneuvers and blocks with my shield to strong or no?

Fine by me, at least.

[Taran]

Stunts give +1 in all circumstances or +2 in certain circumstances.  A +2 to blocks and maneuvers “while wielding a sheild” seems fair. 

I like the weapon value equals the armour value, though I don’t feel that should be a stunt.  It should just be part of what a sheild does.    Part of me feels a sheild should be armour 1 but should stack with regular armour.  Even though armour doesn’t normally stack.