Could Maggie have taken up a Coin?

[Griffyn612]

She made stone for Harry with all her info on the Ways.  Not necessarily when she died, but it's a safe bet she knew he was on the way, and it probably wasn't for Thomas (being a Wampire, his mortal magic probably wasn't on the same level).

I got the impression the stone was for herself, and she intended it for Harry once he was ready to face the things he'd encounter in the NN.  I didn't get the impression that she was making it just for him.

More of "your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough," rather than "your father made this lightsaber just for you, but never got a chance to give it to you himself, and never actually used it himself".

[exartiem]

I got the impression the stone was for herself, and she intended it for Harry once he was ready to face the things he'd encounter in the NN.  I didn't get the impression that she was making it just for him.

More of "your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough," rather than "your father made this lightsaber just for you, but never got a chance to give it to you himself, and never actually used it himself".

I agree with this.  I see her having identical amulets for herself and Thomas.  She creates the Waystone for her own amulet.  When she is soon to give birth, she realizes she will likely be found as labor is an extremely emotional time and she will not be able to hide her power.  So she calls Lea and makes the deal to give her child the amulet with the Waystone "at the appropriate time".

[wardenferry419]

I would say that Maggie Sr. was more intelligent than Harry, who is a fairly smart person when he chooses to be. Her magic might not have had the raw power like McCoy or Harry but more finesse like Elaine.

[Kindler]

Huh. I've been wondering why Harry has so much juice. He makes it a point to say that in terms of fuel tanks, he's got a huge one. For one reason or another, I never connected that to his birthday of Halloween, where power can be stolen—or, maybe, transferred. Is it possible that Margaret arranged a transfer of power from something to Harry as he was born—maybe even some of her own power? I'm thinking about this like passing on furies in the Codex Alera series, which is likely wrongheaded, but I think there might be something there.

Alternately, could a birth power a ritual the way a sacrifice could?

[Griffyn612]

Huh. I've been wondering why Harry has so much juice. He makes it a point to say that in terms of fuel tanks, he's got a huge one. For one reason or another, I never connected that to his birthday of Halloween, where power can be stolen—or, maybe, transferred. Is it possible that Margaret arranged a transfer of power from something to Harry as he was born—maybe even some of her own power? I'm thinking about this like passing on furies in the Codex Alera series, which is likely wrongheaded, but I think there might be something there.

Alternately, could a birth power a ritual the way a sacrifice could?

Death seems to power a ritual using life energy.  What would fuel a birth curse?

As for it being Halloween, I still think he was born prematurely because Raith targeted Maggie on Halloween because spells would be stronger.

[Mr. Death]

Well, if you take Thomas's spiel about sex having so much energy because it creates life at face value, I don't see why that life coming into the world wouldn't have a similar effect.

Even if you're just talking about "ordinary" magic fuels, like emotion, a birth would have plenty of emotions to use.

Given one of my RPG scenarios centered on a birth helping to fuel a ritual (TL;DR, it was a chronomancy spell to send someone back to the moment the child was conceived), I can't really argue against the idea, and I like it as a flipside to the human-sacrifice type of fuel.

And I don't see why Maggie couldn't have given some of her power to Harry; my only question is whether she'd have been able to do that at the same time she was leveling her Death Curse on Lord Raith. Both of them sound like they'd be complicated spells to pull off individually in the best conditions, let alone doing both while you're giving birth and dying.

[forumghost]

Not to mention that she was also setting up whatever spell she used to put a simulacrum of herself in Harry's head for when he met Thomas.

That must've been a full night for her...

[Griffyn612]

Well, if you take Thomas's spiel about sex having so much energy because it creates life at face value, I don't see why that life coming into the world wouldn't have a similar effect.

Even if you're just talking about "ordinary" magic fuels, like emotion, a birth would have plenty of emotions to use.

Given one of my RPG scenarios centered on a birth helping to fuel a ritual (TL;DR, it was a chronomancy spell to send someone back to the moment the child was conceived), I can't really argue against the idea, and I like it as a flipside to the human-sacrifice type of fuel.

And I don't see why Maggie couldn't have given some of her power to Harry; my only question is whether she'd have been able to do that at the same time she was leveling her Death Curse on Lord Raith. Both of them sound like they'd be complicated spells to pull off individually in the best conditions, let alone doing both while you're giving birth and dying.

But you'd be using the energy of birth to cast a spell.  Unless we're going very literal with the idea that "there's more magic in a baby's first giggle than any firestorm a wizard can conjure up", there has to be a source for the power, right?  So would it be the newborn's power?  And what kind of impact would that have on them?

Not to mention that she was also setting up whatever spell she used to put a simulacrum of herself in Harry's head for when he met Thomas.

That must've been a full night for her...

Well, if we're arguing that you *can* cast with the power of birth, then she could have conceivably (bah-dump-ching) used the birth to cast a link between the brothers and the pendants, and then used her death curse to neuter Raith, using the birth casting as the anchor.  Assuming she died a short time after Harry's birth.

[peregrine]

I always thought the message for Harry (and Thomas) was part of her Death Curse, linking the two of them to her magic to shut down Lord Raith.  And while she was there, might as well leave a bit of herself behind to talk to her kids.

Another thing is that I'd look at Birth Magic like Death Magic.  Death Magic uses energy from the victim (either the caster or another) for an extra boost.  But where does the energy come from for Birth Magic?  Either the mother or the child, which would make it much like Death Magic.

[Griffyn612]

I always thought the message for Harry (and Thomas) was part of her Death Curse, linking the two of them to her magic to shut down Lord Raith.  And while she was there, might as well leave a bit of herself behind to talk to her kids.

That was my assumption as well, but it does seem like a lot for her to have done while in labor.  I'm assuming she'd prepared the curse while on the run, knowing Raith might eventually try to kill her.  And knowing Harry was on the way, she could have adjusted her prepared spell to include him.

Another thing is that I'd look at Birth Magic like Death Magic.  Death Magic uses energy from the victim (either the caster or another) for an extra boost.  But where does the energy come from for Birth Magic?  Either the mother or the child, which would make it much like Death Magic.

That was what I was getting at.  But if there's literally more magic in a baby's giggle (I still think it was Harry being poetic) then it's possible there's enough energy in the event itself that nothing would have to be taken from anyone.

[Mr. Death]

I kind of look it almost like fusion where the act itself generates energy. Like, the energy isn't from the mother or the baby, but from the act of birthing itself, because the act is such a major, powerful change.

[groinkick]

I'm assuming she'd prepared the curse while on the run, knowing Raith might eventually try to kill her. 

Maybe but you know the guy who used his killing curse on Harry just had to say "Die alone" and as Jim said, Harry died alone when asked about it.

It could be that there doesn't need to be much preparation for even a curse that appears complex.  Much of magic is about strong belief.  If a wizard is casting a spell that is going to kill them, that requires a lot of determination, and will...  So Maggie may have only needed to think of what she wanted to do to Raith, and unleash it, requiring only a few moments to do it.

[Griffyn612]

Maybe but you know the guy who used his killing curse on Harry just had to say "Die alone" and as Jim said, Harry died alone when asked about it.

It could be that there doesn't need to be much preparation for even a curse that appears complex.  Much of magic is about strong belief.  If a wizard is casting a spell that is going to kill them, that requires a lot of determination, and will...  So Maggie may have only needed to think of what she wanted to do to Raith, and unleash it, requiring only a few moments to do it.

Given Raith's protection from magic, and the fact that her death curse is apparently anchored to her children, I imagine it was more complicated than Cassius' curse, which wasn't very potent and only marginally effective, given that Harry had both Mab (the presumed whisperer) and Bonnie with him when he died.

[Snark Knight]

One crazy wag of mine has Harry descending from nic via Malcolm.  I even proposed that Malcolm is a redeemed, 2nd chanced nic.  So in my theory, Malcolm would be both denarian and knight of the cross.

I'd figure Malcolm must have been a good guy for at least a year before Harry was born, probably more. He didn't just knock her up in a one-night stand; knowing him changed her character significantly. And he lived until Harry was six or seven.

Even if Nicodemus put down the coin and somehow traveled back in time, he simply wouldn't survive that long without Anduriel's protection from aging. Cassius went from middle age to almost dead within about a year of losing his coin, and he hadn't been depending on it as long as Nic.

[raidem]

I'd figure Malcolm must have been a good guy for at least a year before Harry was born, probably more. He didn't just knock her up in a one-night stand; knowing him changed her character significantly. And he lived until Harry was six or seven.

I'm uncertain as to how far back Nic/Malcolm would have to be inserted in time to be consistent with the story.  Malcolm was a magician who practiced with many of the famous magician's of the day.  I'd have to think more about Malcolm's backstory.  It is strange we don't know more about it.  Regardless of Nic/Malcolm family, I'd like for Nic and Harry to somehow be related with Nic being a ancestor of Harry's.  As far as Malcolm goes, I could like him having been descended from a Corwin like family that exists/functions on a higher plane of existence.  Harry having blood of this family would allow him to travel parallel dimensions/worlds independently.

Even if Nicodemus put down the coin and somehow traveled back in time, he simply wouldn't survive that long without Anduriel's protection from aging. Cassius went from middle age to almost dead within about a year of losing his coin, and he hadn't been depending on it as long as Nic.

You are a soul; you have a body.
I think it would be a case of Uriel and company providing a body for Nic's soul to use in his 2nd chance life.  Therefore, he would have no problem with disintegrating due to age.  And, if Uriel provided the 2nd chance with a soul and time travel, it could be that a deal was made with say the Mothers or the Faeries or something for the body.  Nic/Malcolm only had so much time to live in the body of Malcolm before time was 'up'.  He died with a smile on his face knowing he hadn't screwed 'this' life up.