Chronicles of Amber

[knnn]

One thing about the Amber series that struck me is that Corwin at least seems to be a deliberately misleading narrator, essentially hiding some thing from the audience (i.e. Merlin).   

As an example, one of the thing I missed on my first read through is that Corwin is actually capable of casting minor spells.   Notice how a bunch of people get "hotfoot" (e.g. the horned thing in "Guns of Amber" and the Crow in "courts of Chaos") during the story?    It's Corwin casting a spell that causes a burning sensation in the guy's foot.  It's a minor point to be sure, but a subtle hint that Corwin is not revealing everything he knows.

[knnn]

Also Raidem, have you read the last few short stories?   I believe there are five of them.  They take place after the end of Prince of Chaos.

E.g.:

"Blue Horse Dancing Mountains"

https://www.tor.com/2013/10/17/the-chronicles-of-amber-reread-the-short-stories-part-1/

[raidem]

No. I haven't read them yet.

Hmm. So we still have a these characters involved in things:

Luke, Delwin, Vialle (Vialle creating a Oracle)
Corwin, Dworkin, Suhuy,
Merlin, Rhanda, Julia, Jurt, Mr(s) Hidey
Frakir, Flora, Luke
See characters in "The Hall of Mirrors"


https://www.tor.com/2013/10/24/the-chronicles-of-amber-reread-the-short-stories-part-2/

[raidem]

AmberMush Facts link:
http://z14.invisionfree.com/AmberMUSH_Webboard/ar/t11.htm

This sounds like Mac's Bar, from AmberMush

What is the World's End Bar, and how did it come to be?
The WEB was originally a normal bar in San Francisco, named the Chestnut Street Bar and Grill. Since events and fights kept spilling into the local constabulatory's lap in San Francisco, the bar was eventually set adrift, a sort of free-floating Shadow of its own, and renamed the World's End Bar. There was a mirror which led to the Hall of Mirrors, and the door out led to many different Shadows.

The WEB has undergone several complete redecorations (usually thanks to Jurt). Since the Hall of Mirrors imploded, the WEB has been redecorated yet again, and now has a magical glowing corner in place of the mirror. It continues to serve its purpose as a sort of neutral ground, easily accessible by many.

This seems like it is Gatekeeper's Eye.  I

Why is the Jewel not in Coral's eye?
This information is theoretically discoverable through roleplay.

This Jewel is the Jewel of Judgement.  It is used to attune oneself to the Powers of the Pattern to allow oneself to effectively use massive cosmic forces.  It can also be used to create a new Pattern, a way into a completely new multiverse, or creating one from scratch.

Now, Gatekeeper's eye could also be Odin's. Or it could be say from the Fates...  One other thought was that it might be GhostWheel's.  For Ghostwheel, see the cover of this book:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trumps_of_Doom

How are three Patterns balancing, if at all?
Whether or not they balance is a cosmological question, and possibly plot material.

Where's Undershadow?
It has never turned up in play, and therefore likely doesn't exist as such on AmberMUSH.

This would be a plot taking place say Outside of Uriel's office in Chicago during Ghost Story.  Something along those lines.  Merlin goes to a masquerade where he essentially has to take actions forced by order or chaos, his choice, but that matter on the cosmic scale.  He needs to off someone(s) and needs to do it at moment's notice, no hesitation but he is seeing lots of people at a party and some are bad people.  But are they who needs 'killing.'

Another thing that might be like Demonreach is again something based off of GhostWheel.

After finishing construction, Merlin set Ghostwheel to work indexing Shadows in the same way that a search engine indexes the internet. Similar to a search engine, Ghostwheel can find, track, and retrieve objects from Shadow; this includes the ability to move people and objects between Shadows. Ghostwheel operates by creating pseudo-Trumps for every mutation of Shadow and then searching them.

This would be similar to Demonreach's ability to grab Prisoner's and stash them in his prison.  It could be rather, that GhostWheel is what finds, tracks, and retrieve's these entities then places them on Demonreach for Demonreach/Warden to be the Prison.

[raidem]

Amber Discord Server:

[9:47 AM] darniil: I haven't been able to confirm this, but I've been told that Mister (Harry's cat) is inspired by the head of House Barimen in the MUSH that Butcher played in.
[9:49 AM] darniil: I did also ask Butcher one day at a signing, "If the walls between Shadows collapsed and you met Harry, what would his reaction be?"  Butcher laughed and said Harry would punch him right in the face.
[11:03 AM] raidem: Oh, Darnill you were the one that had asked Jim that question.  I later heard about it in WOJ, or Q&A, or something.(edited)
[11:10 AM] darniil: ha!  funny.  yeah, I'm pretty sure it was at a B&N here in Atlanta, on Peachtree, assuming I'm remembering correctly.  I know he's been to Dragon Con, but I'm pretty sure I asked that in a bookstore.

[raidem]

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Amber
I went through the quotes and picked out the ones that stood out to me.  In ways, they could apply to Dresden Files.

There is Shadow and there is Substance, and this is the root of all things. Of Substance, there is only Amber, the real city, upon the real Earth, which contains everything. Of Shadow, there is an infinitude of things. Every possibility exists somewhere as a Shadow of the real. Amber, by its very existence, has cast such in all directions. And what may one say of it beyond? Shadow extends from Amber to Chaos, and all things are possible within it. There are only three ways of traversing it, and each of them is difficult.

Amber casts an infinity of shadows. A child of Amber may walk among them, and such was my heritage. You may call them parallel worlds if you wish, alternate universes if you would, the products of a deranged mind if you care to. I call them shadows, as do all who possess the power to walk among them. We select a possibility and we walk until we reach it. So, in a sense, we create it. Let’s leave it at that for now.

If the forays of chaos kept occurring on my desire-walk through Shadow, then they were bound up with the nature of the desire and would have to be dealt with, one way or another, sooner or later. They could not be avoided. Such was the nature of the game, and I could not complain because I had laid down the rules.

For a moment I regarded the Pattern—a shining mass of curved lines that tricked the eye as it tried to trace them—imbedded there, huge, in the floor's slick blackness. It had given me power over Shadow, it had restored most of my memory. It would also destroy me in an instant if I were to essay it improperly. What gratitude the prospect did arouse in me was therefore not untinged with fear. It was a splendid and cryptic old family heirloom which belonged right where it was, in the cellar.

"Why have we been brought here and shown this thing?"
"It does not correspond to the true state of affairs," I said. "It is the true state of affairs."
Ganelon turned toward us.
"On that shadow Earth we visited—where you had spent so many years—I heard a poem about two roads that diverged in a wood," he said. "It ends, 'I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.' When I heard it, I thought of something you had once said—'All roads lead to Amber'—and I wondered then, as I do now, at the difference the choice may make, despite the end's apparent inevitability to those of your blood."
"You know?" I said. "You understand?"
"I think so."
He nodded, then pointed.
"That is the real Amber down there, isn't it?"
"Yes," I said. "Yes, it is."

[raidem]

"Anything you like. Have you any preferences? My flight from Chaos to this small sudden island in the sea of night? My meditations upon the abyss? The revelation of the Pattern in a jewel hung round the neck of a unicorn? My transcription of the design by lightning, blood, and lyre while our fathers raged baffled, too late come to call me back while the poem of fire ran that first route in my brain, infecting me with the will to form? Too late! Too late... Possessed of the abominations born of the disease, beyond their aid, their power, I planned and built, captive of my new self. Is that the tale you'd hear again? Or rather I tell you of its cure?"
My mind spun at the implications he had just scattered by the fistful. I could not tell whether he spoke literally or metaphorically or was simply sharing paranoid delusions, but the things that I wanted to hear, had to hear, were things closer to the moment. So, regarding the shadowy image of myself from which that ancient voice emerged, "Tell me of its cure," I said.

I could not be truly harmed because the Pattern protects me, and who but I could harm the Pattern? A beautiful closed system, it seemed, its weakness totally shielded by its strength. ... My blood, with which I drew it, could deface it. But it took me ages to realize that the blood of my blood could also do this thing.

It was realized long ago that the two kingdoms can never be merged, or one destroyed, without also disrupting all the processes that lie in flux between us. Total stasis or complete chaos would be the result.

I wish that you had never been born and, failing that, that you had died sooner. Enough! It diminishes me to reflect so. Be dead and trouble my thinking no more.

[raidem]

Merlin Series:

We never used to word “love,” though it must have run through her mind on occasion, as it did through mine. It was, I suppose, that I didn’t love her enough to trust her, and then it was too late.

This was my father’s tomb—well, cenotaph—built long ago when he had been presumed dead. It had amused him considerably to be able to visit the place later on. Now, of course, its status might well have changed. It could be the real thing now. Would this cancel the irony or increase it?

“It means nothing to be able to transport yourself anywhere,” I heard her say, “if you are a fool in all places.”

You can make me play,” I said, “but you cannot make me choose. My will is my own.”

I no longer felt my body. Time was an alien concept. The striving was no longer striving, but a form of elemental movement now, beside which glaciers rushed.

No matter what you are and no matter what’s been done to you, there will have to be some element of choice for you, sooner or later. You are greater than the sum of your parts, Merlin. No matter what went into your birth and your life up to now, you’ve got eyes and a brain and a set of values. Don’t let anybody bullshit you, not even me. And when the time comes, if it comes, make damn sure the choice is your own. Nothing that’s gone before will matter then.

[knnn]

You've got some interesting stuff there Raidem.   I encourage you to keep digging excavating.   


...That is, as long as your semblance of sanity holds up.   

[raidem]

I already included this some comments above but have posted it again to link Reddit and other Mac threads to it.

What is the World's End Bar, and how did it come to be?
The WEB was originally a normal bar in San Francisco, named the Chestnut Street Bar and Grill. Since events and fights kept spilling into the local constabulatory's lap in San Francisco, the bar was eventually set adrift, a sort of free-floating Shadow of its own, and renamed the World's End Bar. There was a mirror which led to the Hall of Mirrors, and the door out led to many different Shadows.
The WEB has undergone several complete redecorations (usually thanks to Jurt). Since the Hall of Mirrors imploded, the WEB has been redecorated yet again, and now has a magical glowing corner in place of the mirror. It continues to serve its purpose as a sort of neutral ground, easily accessible by many.

This is a Reddit on MCAnally's sign.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/comments/7b94gv/mcanallys_changing_sign/

Similar thread on this forum about the sign.  Topic: ACCORDED NEUTRAL GROUND  (Read 655 times)
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,50421.msg2293925.html#msg2293925

 Topic: Mac, A T-Shirt, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion  (Read 262 times)
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,50623.msg2297491.html#msg2297491

https://twitter.com/PatrickRothfuss/status/874393135589326852

I think this T-shirt ties Mac in with being symbolized by a Trump card (spades), this may mean he is one of the characters from Amber (royal family).  I'd argue he is one of the more well-known characters like Corwin, Merlin, Oberon, etc.

[raidem]

Storm Front
Mac Bar: First Introduction

Upon Entering:
The dim, comfortable room was empty, but for a pair of men I recognized by sight at a back table, playing chess.
Upon Exiting:
The chess game in the corner was still in progress, both players puffing up a sweet-smelling smog cloud from their pipes.

There is a short story by Roger Zelazny where Corwin has to ride to Amber and make it in time to visit teh Hall of Mirrors.  Upon his journeying he stops to rests for the night and wanders a bit.  He hears a sound and spies upon Drworkin and Suhuy (representatives of Chaos and Order) playing chess, Chaos bets that Corwin won't make it in time, the players switch spots and Dworkin moves Suhuy's chess piece.  Suhuy has to reflect on the move and bids the night.  Corwin gets back to his camp and makes a beeline with his horse to Amber to get to the Hall of Mirrors in time.

Anyways, the jist is that these two players at Mac's are actually representatives of the cosmic powers and they are moving their chess pieces around.

“Blue Horse, Dancing Mountains”

This story picks up with Corwin (yay!) after he leaves Chaos. He rides a blue horse named Shask, a Chaos creature who can talk and change shape. Shask warns Corwin about the Dancing Mountains which lie between the shadows of Chaos and the shadows of Amber and are constantly shifting.
At night, Shask turns to stone (apparently a hereditary condition) and Corwin sleeps until he is awakened by a sound. He explores to find a depression in the mountain where two figures are playing a game. One figure is seated on the ground and the other hangs upside down in the air as they move pieces on the board. Corwin recognizes the seated man as Dworkin, his grandfather. His game pieces include a griffin, the Unicorn, and Castle Amber. His opponent is soon revealed to be Suhuy, Dworkin’s counterpart in Chaos. His pieces are a Fire Angel, the Serpent, and the Thelbane (the king’s home in Chaos). Neither man can see Corwin, but Suhuy mentions that Corwin won’t make it back to Amber in time to find the Hall of Mirrors and get the answers he needs. Dworkin warns Suhuy not to underestimate Corwin. Then the two men shift position and Dworkin moves a Chaos piece, a woman, which Suhuy objects to. He needs to study the move, so both men agree to reconvene in a few days before disappearing.
Corwin returns to Shask and when the steed awakens, Corwin asks if he knows what a hellride is. Shask does, noting its often harmful effect on a mount’s sanity. Corwin thinks Shask’s mind is up to the task. Corwin knows he has to get to the Hall of Mirrors quickly and so they prepare to depart.

[raidem]

Now in the above I was talking about Corwin racing to make it to the Hall of Mirrors.  Let's say he did, which he did in the short story.  And now after some time reaching the Dresdenverse and setting up shop, Corwin/Mac has a Bar of Mirrors.

Mac keeps a player piano instead. It's less likely to go haywire around us. I say pub in all the best senses of the word. When you walk in, you take several steps down into a room with a deadly combination of a low clearance and ceiling fans. If you're tall, like me, you walk carefully in McAnally's. There are thirteen stools at the bar and thirteen tables in the room. Thirteen windows, set up high in the wall in order to be above ground level, let some light from the street into the place. Thirteen mirrors on the walls cast back reflections of the patrons in dim detail, and give the illusion of more space. Thirteen wooden columns, carved with likenesses from folktales and legends of the Old World, make it difficult to walk around the place without weaving a circuitous route—they also quite intentionally break up the flow of random energies, dispelling to one degree or another the auras that gather around broody, grumpy wizards and keeping them from manifesting in unintentional and colorful ways. The colors are all muted, earth browns and sea greens. The first time I entered McAnally's, I felt like a wolf returning to an old, favorite den. Mac makes his own beer, ale really, and it's the best stuff in the city. His food is cooked on a wood-burning stove. And you can damn well walk your own self over to the bar to pick up your order when it's ready, according to Mac. It's my sort of place.

[nervousenergy]

Cool thread.  The Chronicles of Amber has always been one of my favorite series, having read it shortly after the first series was completed with the Courts of Chaos.  I hadn't considered the close parallels until reading this thread, other than the fact that Amber gets riffed on by a lot of urban fantasy. 

I do like to pretend that the second series around Merlin wasn't written.  One of the great charms of the original 5 was the character of Corwin himself, our narrator.  This series was what first gave me my love of well-executed first person stories.  I've always felt I've known Corwin better than some real friends.  And like many great series, it didn't try to reveal too much.  The second series didn't have nearly as unique a character to narrate in Merlin, and it tried to explain too much.  Magic requires mystery.

Lots of great quotes in this thread.  One of my favorite was a funny throw-away line Corwin uttered after his assassination attempt that I've stolen on occasion:  'If blood be the price of admiralty, I've just bought myself a naval commission...'

[raidem]

A Game That Honed the Skills of Writers
NY Times, Jim Butcher, AmberMush  (Read 4 times)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/24/books/jim-butcher-one-of-the-authors-from-ambermush.html

[raidem]

Another option for Mac is Bassor Thanlis Jim's personal character in AmberMush.  Or, he could be one of the others he created there.

I still favor either Corwin or Corwin's son Merlin as for Mac's identity.