Author Topic: Marcone's heritage  (Read 13618 times)

Offline groinkick

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Marcone's heritage
« on: January 16, 2018, 07:43:01 PM »
We don't know a lot about Marcone, but I do believe his bloodline isn't a random one.  It is important.  I believe his eyes that are green like dollar bills may be a hint..  The soulgaze that displayed I believe a tiger is another.....  Ideas?
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

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Offline peregrine

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2018, 09:24:07 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's "Like a tiger."  Not an actual literal tiger.

After doing some research, it's a "Tiger's soul."  Which is not necessarily a literal tiger.

As for his bloodline not being random, maybe, but why?  There's nothing we've seen to suggest it, other than people wanting it to be so.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2018, 10:24:10 PM »
I am okay with Marcdone being an exceptional but normal man.
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Offline Ananda

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2018, 11:32:20 PM »
His eyes being green like dollar bills was a hint- a hint that it was an author’s first book and he wasn’t a great writer. It was just a heavy handed description while trying a noir theme. That’s it. I remember reading it the first time in Storm Front and thinking how noir cliche it was.

As to his lineage, I hope he’s just some guy. Not everyone needs to be supernatural and or related.

Offline Cozarkian

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 01:16:38 AM »
Ananda said it all.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 03:21:50 AM by Cozarkian »

Offline raidem

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2018, 01:24:48 AM »
Mab's son
Hades son
Harry and Murphy's son.
Lea's son.
Vadderungs descendant.
Lucifers son.
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Offline Rhetoric

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2018, 02:03:24 AM »
I believe Marcone is purely vanilla mortal. To say otherwise detracts from both his accomplishments and the thematic role he plays in the series. And I've done the whole "X-character is related to Y-character!!!" theorycrafting rigmarole in past fandoms, and I've quite learned my lesson. I'm well over it.

That said.

I do still enjoy the pet theory that Mab and Odin had a fling some centuries ago and Marcone is a resulting descendant (though still a complete vanilla mortal). This is very much a pet theory. I don't think it's true. I can't imagine such a revelation affecting much about the plot or the characters. And if it doesn't add to the story, I can't see it being included.

Vadderung (through Gard) pays closer attention to Marcone than I believe their business relationship necessarily calls for. In "Even Hand" Gard appeared to be on the lookout for moments when Marcone made decisions based on moral reasons over pure logic or business, and Marcone indicates this scrutiny is a very regular habit of hers ("As ever, Gard watched me.") I'd also like to bring up Vadderung's words to Harry in Changes:

Quote from: Chapter 21
He smiled, and laughter lurked beneath his next words, never quite surfacing. "You defy beings that should cow you into silence. You resist forces that are inevitable for no more reason than that you believe they should be resisted. You bow your head to neither demons nor angels, and you put yourself in harm’s way to defend those who cannot defend themselves." He nodded slowly. "I think I like you."

One could imagine Vadderung saying the same of Marcone. At least on Marcone's better days. Let's not forget Vadderung helped sign him onto the Accords. Harry (reluctantly) needed to give Marcone better authority to help defend Chicago, and Lara most likely wanted to repay a debt for the Raith Deeps and establish a business partnership (with the possibility of business takeover via White Court vampire feeding). But we don't really know why Vadderung signed, or why he did not do so earlier. One wonders if Marcone's actions in the Raith Deeps had any impact on Vadderung's decision.

"I am... not what I was. My children are scattered around the world. Most of them have forgotten our purpose. Once the Jotuns retreated..." (Changes, chapter 21). If we're ever going to find out Vadderung's specific interest in Marcone, it may be as soon as Peace Talks, where Jotuns will be making their appearance.

As for Mab, we have the obvious base parallels with the cat comparisons (although Marcone has also been referred to as "reptilian") and green-colored eyes that sometimes change color (although for Marcone the change was more figurative than literal). Mab has also established a working relationship with Marcone, one which started before Skin Game and is implied by Harry in "Jury Duty" to possibly be an ongoing affair ("He and Mab had been in cahoots lately. Maybe he’d asked her to arrange it. This had her fingerprints all over it."). Despite Harry being careful during Small Favor to avoid stating his motivations for saving Marcone around both Gard and Demeter, Marcone by Skin Game knows Harry did so at the behest of Mab. There are a number of ways Marcone could have learned this, but Mab may have even told him herself.

The question is why. Mab (or Winter) has, multiple times, in Small Favor, in "Bombshells", and in Skin Game, executed plans which primarily benefited her goals, but also just so happened to benefit Marcone. In Skin Game, Mab and Marcone's scheme is implied to be at least a team effort, if not mostly Mab's idea. But strangely, the first chapter of Peace Talks seems to paint a different picture of events as far as the supernatural community is concerned, if Ramirez is to be believed. ("Marcone maneuvered Nicodemus Archleone into a corner and took everything he had, without breaking a single one of the bylaws of the Accords. Say what you will about the man, but he’s competent. It impressed a lot of people.") Why does it sound as if Marcone is getting most, if not all, the credit? Why would Mab allow this, when the events of Skin Game would have served as a magnificent warning to all against crossing the Queen of Air and Darkness? Is it possible that Mab is personally looking into the success of one of her descendants, one who finally accomplished enough on his own power to warrant notice? Is Odin doing the same?

Eh. Who knows. That's about all I got. This post is sort of a jumbled mess, I apologize. I just wanted to get this paranoid "theory" out for the sake of discussion (and I do enjoy adding fuel to other people's flaming theories). Like I said, I don't actually believe Marcone is actually a descendant of Mab or Odin. I mean honestly, outside of Vadderung mentioning he has children, nothing I wrote above actually has anything to do with foreshadowing familial relationships in particular. I do think there's more at work than we currently know, but I would more readily claim that it has to do with building parallels between Harry and Marcone as rivals and foils to each other.

To be honest, I think I just want it to be true for the sake of the moment when Harry gets to crack jokes about the Mafia don not being purely of Italian decent.

It also helps justify my other pet theory that Marcone wields a Sword in the Mirror Mirror 'verse. And also my other other pet theory that Hendricks's proximity to Marcone is no coincidence, as Hendricks is the latest reincarnation of the Norse hero Helgi, a silent warrior who fell in love with the valkyrie Sváfa, and the two would go on to reincarnate over and over, always reuniting as lovers (Sváfa being an earlier incarnation of the valkyrie Sigrún).

Offline groinkick

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2018, 02:52:01 AM »
His eyes being green like dollar bills was a hint- a hint that it was an author’s first book and he wasn’t a great writer. It was just a heavy handed description while trying a noir theme. That’s it. I remember reading it the first time in Storm Front and thinking how noir cliche it was.

As to his lineage, I hope he’s just some guy. Not everyone needs to be supernatural and or related.

Conjecture stated as fact
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline peregrine

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2018, 03:19:02 AM »
Yeah, that's an unheard of thing here, where people spin their unsupported theories and conjecture as fact.

Offline groinkick

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2018, 04:43:29 AM »
Yeah, that's an unheard of thing here, where people spin their unsupported theories and conjecture as fact.

Not really.  Most people say "I believe" or "my theory is..." or "I think", making it clear it's an opinion.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline jonas

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2018, 04:44:42 AM »
His eyes being green like dollar bills was a hint- a hint that it was an author’s first book and he wasn’t a great writer. It was just a heavy handed description while trying a noir theme. That’s it. I remember reading it the first time in Storm Front and thinking how noir cliche it was.

As to his lineage, I hope he’s just some guy. Not everyone needs to be supernatural and or related.
Noooot! lol. His younger self is described with "summer hunters green eyes" in direct correlation to his fae connotations. He's as archetypal as Dresden is and one of his main Archetypes Is Erlking. His heritage is unknown but i'd like to point out, his striking similarities to Macfinn and also... Uriel, think about Uriels eyes, his hair... compare the two. 
None of this points to a precise heritage and i'm of the opinion Fae heritiage is actually effected by the current formation of the fae(meaning previously 'fae' wouldn't have been correct terminology or end state, which the Aesir and Vanir were NOT fairies but apparently were the two parties of the fairie war), But he does have something in his heritage... heck even his eye color change is something, It cooled and tempered by logical frost. one wonders if a choice wasn't attached he never even twigged to making.
Quote
Not really.  Most people say "I believe" or "my theory is..." or "I think", making it clear it's an opinion.
Easier to remember everything is perspective but the facts pointed out directly from book or woj. of course the rest of it's opinion. Even the interpretation of those facts betimes lol.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 04:48:46 AM by jonas »
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Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2018, 10:02:42 AM »
The only facts are what Butcher says are facts.
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Offline raidem

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2018, 05:38:30 PM »
I've long argued that Marcone is Mab's son. :)
I've even argued that Marcone descends from Vadderung as I believe Harry descends from Vadderung too.  I too have noted Gard's intent focus on Marcone as if she is trying to place him on some family tree.  Although you think that perhaps she is linking him to someone close to Vadderung, I think she is seeing close similarities between Marcone and Harry.  And she is getting a bit clued in on that, or at least a uncanny resemblance in behavior maybe even some looks between the two.  Marcone and Harry have favorite restaurants, they have a no children rule, they have a strict no harm to my people rule, both are stuck in their ways, both have personal relationships with Mab, both are protectors of Chicago, both share many plots and same pages in the comics, both have relationships with Vadderung...

Fact: Marcone plays himself off as a paternal authority figure. (Jim video)  See also text from first interaction between Harry and Marcone.  There are several instances of father, grandfatherly, father to son, etc.

My theory gets a twist in trying to place time travel origins for Marcone and having his parents be both Murphy and Harry. 

Note: In Fool Moon, right after the Loup-garou and Denton are defeated a Cold Front lands in Chicago.  It's as if Mab arrives in Chicago upon that victory.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 05:53:48 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline Quantus

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2018, 05:21:37 PM »
Fwiw, Im quite confident Marcone has Royal Heritage mixed in there somewhere...    8)
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Offline peregrine

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Re: Marcone's heritage
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2018, 05:24:34 PM »
But really, who doesn't?