Alternate Time Periods for Dresden RPGs

[bentleyml]

I like the Post-Apocalypse idea.  Hmmm...  Perhaps a Dresdenverse ala Mad Max.

[Murphy's Stunt Double]

Given the Magic equalizes neutralizes (oops) technology equation in the Dresdenverse, there would be no fight... as long as Harry and the other Wizards/Wardens could get close enough.

[Jaroslav]

 I can't believe no one has said this yet. Wouldn't it be awesome to set your game around the time that the White Council first appeared? You’d get to meet the original Merlin and see what kind of baddies wandered the earth at that time. The only problem is that we lack a lot of information about this time. But once we get some more I'll definitely set a game around this time.   

[Blaze]

The Hollow Hills version of the Dresdenverse?  Yeah.  Hey, Arthur!  *waves*

Then, there is Dresden SteamPunk.

[Spray]

Given the Magic equalizes neutralizes (oops) technology equation in the Dresdenverse, there would be no fight... as long as Harry and the other Wizards/Wardens could get close enough.

yes this is true, magic does neutralise technology, but hasnt it been hypothesised that this is because the people that are producing, developing, building said technologies dont believe in magic, if the post apocolyptic magic/mundies war etc did take place then surely the people developing the technologies to combat magic would believe in magic, and even if this was not the case Kincaid worked out that a wizard could be killed by a rifel that fires faster than the speed of sound so mundies could make a good fight of it. Given all that i think it could be great fun

[The Last Bean]

Then there's the possiblity that once people accept magic they'll study it and find a way to make some sort of defensive field for their gear. The thing with harry's bones and Butters suggests that the effects from wizards ARE observable and quantifiable if enough resources are dedicated to them. Maybe once they figure out what the "wizard particle" is they can create material shielding for it. If there is no way to stop wizard particles, maybe "Reality Enforcers" to keep down the fluctuations from magic users. I wonder if using Faerie materials to build a gun would make it magic proof?

As an alternate stragegy it's been demonstrated that some magics can be created by anyone, such as the magic circle. Does a circle made of laser light count? Then you could have a moving magic circle that reinstates itself a few hundred times a second so that it can still be fired thru without risking damage to the person using it. Kind of a high-frequency magical scrambling field.

[DrygonDM]

Red coats = Red Courts?   

Hey that would be an idea Blaze...

Most likely Red Coat Officers would be Red Court, with mundanes in the rank and file
- with "working their way up the Ladder" being promoted to vamp?
This would keep the lower-ranked officers in line, since replacement is very easy.
====================================================================================================
Might not need to be said, but I'm going to say this anyway - For those that are Running (GM-ing) these games - especially for Offline Gaming,
make sure that you have as much information about the Era that you are wanting to run, to give to your Players:

Remember the differences between the American 1980's and the 1990's? Even as little as ten years was a huge difference.
Keep this in mind for going futher back. Sure, their might not be much historical differnece between the 1880's and the 1890's, or the 1780's and the 1790's, but those differences were there - and important to the people involved - non-the-less.

Language(s), word usage, Dress Codes, social behaviors, taboos, and expectations, etc. of each Country that the Players might go to.
Region even - like France being divided into several regions, with different dress codes, and such. (Saying that they are all alike is silly. Sure they all speak French, but that is like saying that a modern Texan and a New Yorker speak un-accented English , and still dress alike because they are Americans. Uh-huh, and you wanted that Texan's cowboy boot, and the New Yorker's Construction Worker's boot [as one example] up your "Exit" {word/s exchanged} how far? They will go back to fighting each other in a 'friendly manner' once they get done with you.... LOL!!! )

And the GM needs to strictly enforce that those Characters that have never been exposed to these differences cannot have any clue as to what to do.
An Example: "I'm an American Revolutionist Wizard that is in 1772 England, I have been discovered by the Red Court, and they have sent the Red Coats to find me. How the heck do I hide from the Red Coats, long enough to get what I need done, and then get to the Escape Gate? I'll worry about dealing with the Fey once I get there..."
- Answer: Find "rebels" in the Great Britain area: Scottish, Irish, Welsh, and English malcontents, etc. to help you.
These "rebels" should be played by the other Players, with the DM playing the part of the Red Court Lieutenant that is in charge of the Red Coats out to find that $@%! (Wizard) "American Spy"!!!
====================================================================================================
Another thing that needs to be remembered by the GM, is traveling and speed. Travel by wagan , or even horse is rather slow; Remember, what takes us three hours on the highway at 50 mph (150 miles !!), used to be almost a week's travel by wagon, and at least 2 days on horseback; even using something like the Pony Express took ten days to get a letter from St. Joseph, Missouri, to Sacramento, California - a 1,966 mile distance - and that was by changing horses about every 25 miles, and riders every 50 miles!

Fact: 1860's: The Pony Express averaged nine mph over 25 mile stages.
So, it still might take 18-20 hours of non-stop riding by the same person, assuming no delays between exchanging horses!!

Q - Prehaps The Pony Express is created soooner then the historical 1860 and lasting past 1861 by wealthy Wizards as a "mostly reliable" means to comminicate faster?   

Obstical - It may not be possible to travel from one Region to another, even through the NeverNever in a single day, since the "connections" between these places have not been made in the Real World - yet.

Obstical - Crossing the Oceans by any means except in a boat may not even be possible - especially not through the NeverNever.
Or perhaps the "Ocean Fey" are very different from those on Land?
If you thought it was hard to talk to the Wolf "Spirit", how much more difficult  would it be to speak to a Shark "Spirit", or a Jellyfish "Spirit"?

Shapeshifting into a bird can increase the distance traveled by a person in a day, but the Theriomorph must still eat, and rest.
====================================================================================================
                                              Here's my Idea: How about the Civil War Era?
Some research would still be needed - for example, the history on as many Native American Tribes during this time as possible.
Rememering that the Supernatural World is Hidden from Mundanes.

Everything hinges on the outcome of the Civil War, and nothing is simple.
Where the White Council is divided:
The Merlin decrees that Magic must be Hidden.
However, more supernatural preditors are becoming active, and many young American Wizards are defending their families and country.
(South supports Old World ways, and North seeks to break free of these "binding chains")

- and all the Vampire Courts are running around trying to infiltrate Humanity and take over; like Red Court being Rober Barons, or Assassins (PC); Black Court being Moffia, or Mercinaries (PC); and White Court being Plantation owners, or Spies (PC)?

- the Fey are at war with those "Native American" Spirits that exist between North and South, with the native American Peoples still running around, but this time they are actually involved in the events of this War, instead of outside observers?

- what of the African Tribal Spirits of those enslaved? Remember that revenge might be sweet, but greater disasters can only be avoided by uniting with those that you hate. Mutual understanding and respect kills hate.

- and perhaps various Mortal-looking types have secretly sided with the mortal troops of both sides - North and South, perhaps to aid against the other supernatural baddies, or perhaps to take over for themselves: Dresden-verse Werewolves, Lycanthropes, Changlings, and Scions.

PCs can find themselves on either - or even both sides of what is now the Mason-Dixon line;
as well as having to choose sides in other battles - like with the Spirits or the Fey?

How far do you trust that Black Court Merc - or that White Court Spy - do you make a deal with a Red Court Baron?
What are the Rewards for doing so? What are the consequences for not doing so?

And the end results of How the World will Be (Mundane and Supernatural) are dependent upon the outcome of this Moral War?

Another Questions is: The Railroad Race. Does this happen during the Civil War? If so:
Who is behind it, how important is it - and how must the PCs get involved?
Are there other things competing against the Railroads?
Like the above mentioned Pony Express?
Steam powered coaches?
or perhaps, Dirigibles?

- The GM must know the answers to this all.
Prepaire as much as possible in advance, but be ready to adapt quickly to changes the PCs make.
====================================================================================================
Some of these Ideas can also be used in other Eras...
Like, "flying ships" (Dirigibles) in the early 1500, the height of the Pirate Age?
Q - How do you fire a cannon off a Dirigibles and not cause it to explode?
====================================================================================================
Comments in response welcome.

Ok. I shall now stop "RPG Gezzer Rambling". Sorry.

[Blaze]

The reality of Magic changes everything!  Could the Americas even have been populated by Europeans if the Native Peoples had magic?  Would the people who were forced out of Europe due to persecution been the practitioners?  (Pilgrims as Wizards, think about that!  Escaping the burning times.)

You can really do a lot of revisionist history with this. 

Say Africa had been populated with a few mages...  Would there have been an active slave trade?  Would the mages have run it, profited by it, or would they have prevented it?  Even in American Slave Culture in reality, practices such as vodun terrified the European owners, so if a slave (or slaves) had real magic power...  what would that have done?  Say, Lee or Grant were white council wizards. 

I can think of a jillion scenarios in which alternate universes might erupt due to magic, even if it was used only sparingly.

I have thought about this a lot, since I have run alternate history campaigns, and cross times campaigns and needed them to make sense and not set up paradoxes.

There are lots of fun bits to examine.

Thermopoli == 300 Wizards!  Or even 1 wizard and 299 Spartans
 
Masada == What if the Romans had magic?  What if the Jews had magic?

Agincourt == Get rid of those Genoaese crossbowman and sub in some wizards, watch history change!

Great Fire of London, Bunkerhill, Alamo... This list is endless.  How tactics would be different if magic worked.  Even if it was kept secret.

[Lizard King]

Blaze, what keeps all those things extra interesting to me is that BOTH sides have magic, the slaves and the slave traders, the Persians and the Spartans, the North and the South, the Hatfields and McCoys... there are limitless awesome stories out there. 

[DrygonDM]

Blaze, what keeps all those things extra interesting to me is that BOTH sides have magic, the slaves and the slave traders, the Persians and the Spartans, the North and the South, the Hatfields and McCoys... there are limitless awesome stories out there.

Exactly.

Sorry if my earlier post did not indicate this, because it was ment to mean that all sides of the various conflicts had access to Magic and/or were Supernatural Creatures.
In my Civil War Era case, North & South, Slaves & Owners, Native Americans, and more.

The Characters of each Player would have a Starting Point, and perhaps starting beliefs.
The Starting Point would determine those things that their PC would already know - local customs, language, etc.
As well as what would logically be available for them to learn about another Country or Region.
For example: It would make sense that an English PC could know the general customs and language of England, and be at least understood in the various English-controlled Regions. It would also be possible for the PC to learn either French or Spanish (depending on the Era) as the common "trade language".

Now, although the Scots (and/or the Irish) can speak English, do you think that they are really going to be interested in teaching a Britian their own Language?
Not without a lot of good reasons to do so, and maybe not even then.
And while customs can be learned through observation, taboos cannot!!
(Normally huge taboos are pointed out to the guest early one, so as to avoid problems later, but the point was - that the person has to be told about these taboos.)
==================================================================================================================
One of the things that really needs to be emphasized here - is Player co-operation.
The Players need to be reminded that the GM can't do everything for them, and so they shall have to come up with ways for how their Character would end up "working" with the other PCs.

Setting - American Civil War Era.
(The {Mohegan} Tribe were what the "Last of the [Mohicans]" book was written about, just FYI.) {Mo-HEE-gun} [muh-HEE-can]
http://www.geocities.com/bigorrin/mohegan_kids.htm

Player 1 is playing a Mohegan Native American Shaman. Goal is to try and get the White People to be more "Hippy-ish"; and failing that, to save the Tribe.
Player 2 is playing a Sorcerer slave escaped from the South. Goal is to get enough power to free all the slaves, and will use magic to kill.
Player 3 is playing a Warden from the North. Enforces the 7 Laws of Magic, but supports the freeing of slaves. Goal: Reveal (and kill) Vampires.
Player 4 is playing a French Werewolf that hates Wizards - perhaps originally a Hexenwolf? Goal: equal rights for Theriomorphs!!
Player 5 is playing a (Any) Court English Vampire. Goal: finding more "humane" ways to feed, while defending people against the other vampires.

Now, all of the Characters have a different Starting Point. They also have conflicting beliefs and Goals.
Beliefs can be changed through the right kind of encounters, and Goals can change via friendships, love, etc.

Now, if the "Party" wants to break up, and each takes their Character in a different direction - the DM should allow this, but stop the Game and talk to all the Players.
GM to Player Group: "Ok, people. Now, each of your Characters is going to have a turn being the focus of the story. The other Players shall have to be involved in what the focus PC is doing. In order to do this, I am going to have some premade NPCs, with Location and Basic Goals, that you can play. Tonight we shall start with {Player 1}'s Character, and rotate around the table in order. Once I have declaired the Story Arc to be done, then we shall move on to the next PC. Or, would the Group prefure that a Different Player's Character is the focus each Game Night?"
This keeps the other Players involved and interested in the Game.
It still takes a lot of work, and a lot of patience. On the parts of both the GM and all the Players.

Oh, and before I forget:
GM Signaficant Pause while having the Gaming Group's attention: "Remember that a Rivel is not an enemy. You Players are ment to be playing Heroes and Rivels. Only I am allowed to play truely 'Evil' Characters. I'm the one that all of your Characters have to figure out how to defeat. It's my job as the Gamemaster to be the bad guys, and it's ok to hate me - a little. I do not want the Gaming Group to start hating each other because one or more of you decided to be "evil" that day. So, truely evil acts in character, even as an NPC shall be penalized. Also, anyone caught Metagaming* shall be asked to leave the game."
This keeps the peace between Players in the Group.

*{Metagaming: when a Player uses information that their Character would not have any way of knowing to benefit their PC.
From abusing Game Rules; to having their "Barbarian" knowing about that Orc Army the "Wizard" found out about last game.}

[Blaze]

While you might think that both sides should have wizards, history shows us that societies often ostracize subgroups in ways that do not benefit them.  So, as a resource, Wizards may have been squandered or even eradicated in certain instances.

There might for example be societies in which only one gender is allowed to embrace magic.  Societies in which all magic has been hunted down and destroyed.  Societies where those with Magic are exalted and become a ruling class.

People do it now, they did it in the past, and they will continue to do it in the future, ostracizing sub groups, excluding folks based on gender, religion, whatever is the prejudice du jour.

So, you can look at it as being fully balanced, or not.  I think the not is more likely and more interesting.

[DrygonDM]

You are correct to an extent, Blaze.

Remember that one Societies' Wizard is another Societies' "Heretic".

Another thing to remember is that whenever one groups seeks to destroy another, one of two things happen: They either succeed in killing all of the other group, or the losing group goes into hiding.

Which is why that "Slave" listed for my example game was a Sorcerer PC. Slaves cannot be Wizards, since they would never recieve the level of training to become a "Wizard".
Even if this Sorcerer was somehow accepted by the North White Council as a member, he would still be a Sorcerer - and the title of Wizard does not change that fact. At least not until the PC spends enough time in Game, and then the EXP to upgrade themselves to a Dresdenverse "Wizard" status.
As the GM, I would enforce the rule that other North White Council Wizards would not trust the new "Wizard" (Ex-Sorcerer) and would deal with that PC only when needed. PCs could get past this, but not NPCs. Kinda like what happens with Harry in the books.

By the way, I am enjoying this Debate.

[Blaze]

Oh yeah, me too.  I am enjoy this debate, and I mean it all in the most open and thoughtful way.  When you role play, especially with older and or better educated gamers.

My gaming group consists of a bunch of people who have actually built a trebuchet, and an arbelist, used them in siege and battle...  People who understand tolerances for materials, chemistry, anatomy, architecture (we are old and over-educated here.)

So, I am use to looking at all sides of an adventure before I run it, because I never know when someone will pull out some really bizarre, but quite feasible concept and I will have to deal with it in a calm and even demeanor.

This sort of discussion helps with that. 

Ever sit and talk about the boxcar theory of time versus the spiral or string theory?  LOL  I have, and found that fun!

[Lizard King]

Which is why that "Slave" listed for my example game was a Sorcerer PC. Slaves cannot be Wizards, since they would never recieve the level of training to become a "Wizard".

By the way, I am enjoying this Debate.

I'm enjoying the debate, too.  Which is why I'm going to point out that Slaves in the US were some of the more magically oriented people in our history, usually following the voauden traditions.  In fact, even the slave owners would at times come to the slaves for spells, charms, and cures.  Sure, they may not fit into the White Council, but I wouldn't want to mess with them!

[finarvyn]

Most likely Red Coat Officers would be Red Court, with mundanes in the rank and file
- with "working their way up the Ladder" being promoted to vamp?
This would keep the lower-ranked officers in line, since replacement is very easy.

Drygon, that's such a cool idea. I might run a game using your idea, or maybe do some sort of time travel thing where my modern-day characters get thrown into 1776....