Author Topic: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 23900 times)

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2018, 09:47:28 AM »
Good one, jonas.
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Offline Kindler

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #61 on: January 08, 2018, 04:06:44 PM »
I have to disagree with, apparently, most of the people on this thread. I really liked TLJ, in fact, I thought it was quite possibly the best Star Wars movie so far. They had an interesting plot that never went quite the way you'd expect. Had a good mix of drama with some lighthearted moments that I thought worked well. They had some cute, kitschy critters, but were restrained in their use enough that they didn't become cloying or distracting. The action scenes were well-done and actually advanced the plot.  And I really liked the interaction between Luke and Rey.
I understand that some people were disappointed at the notion that Rey's parents were nobodies, but I thought that actually made the most sense in the context of the story. First of all, having her be the secret daughter of Luke, or even Obi-wan, would have been pretty contrived. Second, it was the most dramatic and heartbreaking discovery for Rey. For Luke, pretty much the worst thing he could have discovered was that Darth Vader was his father. For Rey, it was learning that her parents were nobodies and couldn't give her the answers she was seeking. I really hope they don't backtrack on this and try to make her actually the daughter of some important character, and I will be very disappointed if they do
Lots of spoilers, cuz the plot of the movie is where I have problems.

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I loathed this movie. For me, it is a fresh black mark on a series struggling to regain its narrative feet after a disappointing prequel trilogy. Especially coming off the excellent Rogue One, I wanted my money back at the end.

Anyone is free to disagree with me; I'm not telling anyone that they're not allowed to like something, or that they're wrong for liking it. But the whole thing, start to finish, left a horrible taste in my mouth, and I just wound up mad. I get that they wanted to do something different, which is cool, but their way of doing that was mocking what was old. That's not fair; it's a slap in the face to fans of the original.

Offline Foxed

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2018, 05:15:44 PM »
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Was she wrong, though? I thought the movie did an excellent job showing us she was right about a protagonist we had grown to love.

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It's almost like you understand the movie. And they would have thought that because those actions were that. The problem is in mythologizing those actions and then acting on that myth.

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It's almost like he wanted to see Rey again. Jesus, you pick that as what doesn't make sense? It makes perfect sense! The motive is clear!
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Offline Kindler

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2018, 08:55:09 PM »
I fundamentally disagree with you on just about every point. I'll concede Finn has
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. The rest is still, in my opinion, bad.
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And yes, I'm going to blame Holdo,
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.
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As for the theme of the movie,
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That's all I have to say; we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Again, like what you want.

Offline forumghost

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2018, 09:25:48 PM »
I mean, themes are great and all that, but when the theme of a Star Wars movie is 'Fuck Star Wars'...

That's kind of a fundamental issue, to me.

Offline Foxed

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #65 on: January 08, 2018, 09:36:19 PM »
The theme wasn't Fuck Star Wars. It was about saving the good parts and making new Star Wars.

You can not like the theme, but you can't call everything that plays into the theme useless. That's crazy.
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Offline forumghost

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2018, 10:04:59 PM »
That would be crazy. By all means, please point out where I said that, and then explain to me what 'good parts' the current series wants to save.

Because so far the message of the movies has been
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TLDR: New movies are shit because they're busy trying to tear down the old movies to prop themselves up, instead of trying to be good on their own merits.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 10:06:30 PM by forumghost »

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #67 on: January 08, 2018, 11:36:08 PM »
I think that preaching socio-political messages  as plot points does not work for sci-fi movies.  Focuse on making the movie good and the message will get across.
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Offline raidem

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #68 on: January 08, 2018, 11:42:07 PM »
I'll laugh if another company buys the rights to star wars and then voids these last few movies Disney did calling them legends and starting over.  It would give the fans of the new movies a taste of what it feels like to be an expanded universe fan.
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Offline jonas

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2018, 12:29:52 AM »
I'll laugh if another company buys the rights to star wars and then voids these last few movies Disney did calling them legends and starting over.  It would give the fans of the new movies a taste of what it feels like to be an expanded universe fan.
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Offline Kindler

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #70 on: January 09, 2018, 04:04:55 PM »
TLDR: New movies are shit because they're busy trying to tear down the old movies to prop themselves up, instead of trying to be good on their own merits.

Honestly, that was my biggest problem with The Last Jedi. I liked the Force Awakens, and still do (I know it's popular to dump on it now, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with nostalgia). TLJ felt like an overcorrection to the criticism leveled against the Force Awakens about said nostalgia. Like I said before, you can do new stuff, but Newness is not a virtue in and of itself, and doesn't require "killing the past." There were bright spots; I liked the opening sequence, I thought Rey and Kylo were good, and about half of Luke's scenes were good (but I really didn't need to see him drinking blue milk fresh from an udder, for instance).

I think that preaching socio-political messages  as plot points does not work for sci-fi movies.  Focuse on making the movie good and the message will get across.

I generally agree. I think it dragged down the movie, especially Rose's character, whose only role seemed to be telling everyone around her that they were stupid. It felt like self-insert fic. That and, you know, grinding the movie to a halt to talk about animal cruelty.

I'm just mad because I really, really, really wanted to like it, and this movie felt like it was insulting me for liking the ones that came before it.

Offline Talby16

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #71 on: January 10, 2018, 04:33:34 PM »
A little late to the party, but I read an interesting take on the whole bringing balance to the force issue. I will try to find the author, but essentially the assertion was that Anakin brought balance to the force by killing the Sith Order. Since Darth Bane the Sith have lived by the rule of 2 keeping the number of dark side users artificially low. Granted, there were other dark side users out there (Nightsisters for example), but nothing like the Sith Empire of Old. So on one side you had thousands of Jedi using the light side versus a limited number of Sith tapping into the Dark Side. That was the imbalance. By killing Palpatine and then dying Anakin killed the Sith legacy and the majority of the Sith teachings (outside of Holocrons) was lost. This, along with the previous destruction of the Jedi Order, would allow for an organic growth of light and dark side users and restore a balance between the two sides.

Offline Rasins

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #72 on: January 10, 2018, 07:33:27 PM »
I like that Talby.

I'd heard a different theory about it once.

Basically the Jedi were protecting the ecosystem from Pollution.

Imagine a beautiful meadow/pond ecosystem in perfect balance.  Predator/Prey were in balance.   Any impurities were filtered through the system all was good.

Then the Sith came along and started dumping toxic waste into this ecosystem.

The Jedi were supposed to prevent it, and eventually were unable to and it would require a savior (The One Who Will Restore Balance).

I think I like your's better.
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Offline Kindler

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #73 on: January 10, 2018, 07:49:25 PM »
A little late to the party, but I read an interesting take on the whole bringing balance to the force issue. I will try to find the author, but essentially the assertion was that Anakin brought balance to the force by killing the Sith Order. Since Darth Bane the Sith have lived by the rule of 2 keeping the number of dark side users artificially low. Granted, there were other dark side users out there (Nightsisters for example), but nothing like the Sith Empire of Old. So on one side you had thousands of Jedi using the light side versus a limited number of Sith tapping into the Dark Side. That was the imbalance. By killing Palpatine and then dying Anakin killed the Sith legacy and the majority of the Sith teachings (outside of Holocrons) was lost. This, along with the previous destruction of the Jedi Order, would allow for an organic growth of light and dark side users and restore a balance between the two sides.

That's what I've always thought; Anakin reduced the number of Jedi to two (Yoda and Obi Wan) to match the number of Sith (himself and Palpatine).

I'm ignoring Extended Universe stuff. I never bothered with any of it (aside from a couple of the Wedge Antilles books a while back, because they're funny).

Offline Talby16

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Re: Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #74 on: January 10, 2018, 07:58:21 PM »
I think it also has to do with the concentration of power, not just the absolute number of light and dark side users. The Sith were keeping the number of dark side users low and concentrating the use of the dark side in a few. Thus the dark side was not getting used much, but when it did it had much wider implications (starting a war, toppling the republic, setting up an Empire etc). Contrast that with the light side which had thousands of Jedi using their power on a daily basis to settle all kinds of relatively minor conflicts. It was that imbalance in power usage/access that Anakin corrected.