Random question about Nickelheads & Summer

[kbrizzle]

I recall that somewhere in Death Masks, Harry is told by Father Forthill or one of the KotC that the last time Nicodemus & Tessa worked together resulted in the Black Death in the 13th century.

Later, in Cold Days, when Harry is at Mother Summer & Winter’s cabin, he sees a whole lot of diseases kept in jars on MS’ side of the cabin. One of the jars is labeled Black Death.

Do you think there’s a connection?

[Kindler]

Sure, why not? It's an interesting idea. Anduriel helped Mab out with bilocation at one point, per Word of Jim, before Lea took up the job full time. So there had to be some kind of working relationship; maybe one of the Denarians we haven't seen had a rat aspect that was able to spread it through London.

[wardenferry419]

I recall that somewhere in Death Masks, Harry is told by Father Forthill or one of the KotC that the last time Nicodemus & Tessa worked together resulted in the Black Death in the 13th century.

Later, in Cold Days, when Harry is at Mother Summer & Winter’s cabin, he sees a whole lot of diseases kept in jars on MS’ side of the cabin. One of the jars is labeled Black Death.

Do you think there’s a connection?

I was most interested in the one that was labeled wormwood.

[jonas]

I was most interested in the one that was labeled wormwood.

I was just interested in the whole concept this warm loving Mother has a very dark side when it comes to some of her children. She's kinda looking forward to that era of rampant growth Bob mentions in SK.
I've asked before, here again... If MW secretly cares for reality in her own way, doth not MS want to destroy it in her own way too?
Although Wormwood and it's connection to biblical apocalypse has been an interest of mine.

[wardenferry419]

Mothers nature can be very mercurial.

[Rasins]

It's all about balance.  Time to live, time to die.  Time for Growth, time for Death.

The mothers are no different.

What I find really interesting is how much of a Boy Scout they are.  "Be prepared".

[Ananda]

It's all about balance.  Time to live, time to die.  Time for Growth, time for Death.

The Thunder Perfect Mind

...
For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am <the mother> and the daughter.
I am the members of my mother.
I am the barren one
and many are her sons.
I am she whose wedding is great,
and I have not taken a husband.
I am the midwife and she who does not bear.
I am the solace of my labor pains.
I am the bride and the bridegroom,
and it is my husband who begot me.
I am the mother of my father
and the sister of my husband
and he is my offspring.
I am the slave of him who prepared me
...
For I am knowledge and ignorance.
I am shame and boldness.
I am shameless; I am ashamed.
I am strength and I am fear.
I am war and peace.
Give heed to me.
...

[wardenferry419]

Out of curiousity, I looked this poem up. It was a poem found with Gnostic teachings circa 350 AD.  It is about a female savior or Goddess similar to Isis. There is an an essay about the poem that retitles it "When nonsense makes sense."

[Kindler]

I was just interested in the whole concept this warm loving Mother has a very dark side when it comes to some of her children. She's kinda looking forward to that era of rampant growth Bob mentions in SK.
I've asked before, here again... If MW secretly cares for reality in her own way, doth not MS want to destroy it in her own way too?
Although Wormwood and it's connection to biblical apocalypse has been an interest of mine.

That is likely true; there's a yin and yang aspect to both of them.

As far as wormwood goes, I've made it something of a Biblical study of it myself. (For those wondering, Wormwood is mentioned in Revelations 8:11, as the Third Trumpet of the Apocalypse.) King James, Rev. 8:11:

And the name of the star is Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Wormwood is a star that falls from the heavens and lands on "a third of the rivers and on the springs." The reference to Wormwood immediately made me think of "stars and stones," and of meteor showers, and delivers a waterborne plague (think typhoid). One of the tropes I like about apocalyptic stories is when they find cool ways to incorporate Revelations as prophecies, but with fun symbolic interpretation. As a teenager, I even had it in my head that I was going to "break new ground and write a Revelations story with awesome interpretations of the Four Horsemen, with one of them being a biker and another driving a tank and—" you get the idea; I was young and didn't understand what "new ground" really was. I probably still have my notes on that terrible story somewhere. I should find them and read them to humble myself.

Anyway, I'm assuming that the BAT will include all apocalypses, because this is Jim Butcher we're talking about, so I'm figuring Wormwood's going to be a big thing that happens (or that Harry has to prevent from happening). Note that it says a third of the rivers and springs are tainted, not that a third of humanity is killed. That comes later, in Revelations 9, when four angels lead something that looks suspiciously like the Wild Hunt to kill a third of those remaining on earth.

[jonas]

That is likely true; there's a yin and yang aspect to both of them.

As far as wormwood goes, I've made it something of a Biblical study of it myself. (For those wondering, Wormwood is mentioned in Revelations 8:11, as the Third Trumpet of the Apocalypse.) King James, Rev. 8:11:

Wormwood is a star that falls from the heavens and lands on "a third of the rivers and on the springs." The reference to Wormwood immediately made me think of "stars and stones," and of meteor showers, and delivers a waterborne plague (think typhoid).

This I think is the basis for stars and stones, the whole meaning of which isn't clear, but may involve the coffins around MW's, the Stone table, The items of the vault or the 5 stars 'on Lady Night's neck' in CH

One of the tropes I like about apocalyptic stories is when they find cool ways to incorporate Revelations as prophecies, but with fun symbolic interpretation. As a teenager, I even had it in my head that I was going to "break new ground and write a Revelations story with awesome interpretations of the Four Horsemen, with one of them being a biker and another driving a tank and—" you get the idea; I was young and didn't understand what "new ground" really was. I probably still have my notes on that terrible story somewhere. I should find them and read them to humble myself.

Oh my yes, do you know even HALF of the theories I have on the horsemen and how they are being used in the DF (hint, it, all of it, is revolving around the Horsemen and the Judge(with exception to the Original Darkness/Slowest Evil Chronos, by any other name)

Anyway, I'm assuming that the BAT will include all apocalypses, because this is Jim Butcher we're talking about, so I'm figuring Wormwood's going to be a big thing that happens (or that Harry has to prevent from happening).

Of course I think more that each is a layer of the same thing perhaps, like the rest of it.

Note that it says a third of the rivers and springs are tainted, not that a third of humanity is killed.

I take that, in this instance actually, to mean 1/3 of the KotC, the weapons themselves, Fall to Evil usages. Having Mjolnir make a reference in Michael's hands and Butters recreating the sword of Faith based on a movie.... pretty sure the Blood of the innocent would make the sword change for the worse.

That comes later, in Revelations 9, when four angels lead something that looks suspiciously like the Wild Hunt to kill a third of those remaining on earth.

[Rasins]

I was talking to my son the other day about the BAT and the apocalypses.

He suggested that maybe all of the various apocalypses either have happened already, or will.  Meaning that perhaps Ragnarok has occurred and the Christians Apocalypse is next, or something like that.

[wardenferry419]

Maybe Ragnorak happened around the time that Mab took over guarding the outer gates?

[wardenferry419]

The Mayan calandar was supposed to end in 2012. Instead, the RCV, which seems to be Mayan connected, ended in  2010. Mainly due to the mistake of kidnapping Harry's daughter.

[Rasins]

The Mayan calandar was supposed to end in 2012. Instead, the RCV, which seems to be Mayan connected, ended in  2010. Mainly due to the mistake of kidnapping Harry's daughter.

Well, you can't be right every time.

[wardenferry419]

Well, still good guessing at an event that happened over a 1000 years in the future.