the end trilogy of the books - who will it be ?

[haroos]

1) the denarians ?
2) the outsiders ? (which implies traitors amongst the wizard council)
3) the vampires ? (although unlikely)
4) the kemmlerites ? (which implies traitors amongst the wizard council)
5) the fomors ? (tbh, i still have no clear understand of who they are, if they are effective at all, and what do they want)
6) a combination of the above ?
7) the unknown that has yet to reveal itself ...

[Arjan]

Hells Bells ==> Apocalypse, Denarians and other Fallen.
Stars and Tones ==> Ragnarok, giants, Fomor, etc.
Empty Night ==> the end of reality, the outsiders.

Why settle for one if you can have three apocalypses in one trilogy? Bible, Edda and Lovecraft. 

[Avernite]

Hells Bells ==> Apocalypse, Denarians and other Fallen.
Stars and Tones ==> Ragnarok, giants, Fomor, etc.
Empty Night ==> the end of reality, the outsiders.

Why settle for one if you can have three apocalypses in one trilogy? Bible, Edda and Lovecraft.

But the bibilical apocalypse, at least, could not fit just one book. It seems likely that the last of the trilogy will have the other two 'imminent destruction' events still in the background at least. Though it's always possible that for example the Denarians are turned from 'go for biblical apocalypse to bring our powers up to eleven to slaughter the Outsiders' to 'we failed at that, but better Harry's victory than Empty Night'.

[Arjan]

But the bibilical apocalypse, at least, could not fit just one book. It seems likely that the last of the trilogy will have the other two 'imminent destruction' events still in the background at least. Though it's always possible that for example the Denarians are turned from 'go for biblical apocalypse to bring our powers up to eleven to slaughter the Outsiders' to 'we failed at that, but better Harry's victory than Empty Night'.

Each book is merely the start of one of the three apocalypses, they all continue and work together until the end. So when the outsiders attack Hell and The Fomor are still busy.

[jonas]

Each book is merely the start of one of the three apocalypses, they all continue and work together until the end. So when the outsiders attack Hell and The Fomor are still busy.

Yea, I see hells bells as a warning/arrival system for outsiders so it goes.
Invasion
Inception inside reality as substantial
removal of barriers between this world and other, wuji, one form/energy.

[wardenferry419]

Hells Bells ==> Apocalypse, Denarians and other Fallen.
Stars and Tones ==> Ragnarok, giants, Fomor, etc.
Empty Night ==> the end of reality, the outsiders.

Why settle for one if you can have three apocalypses in one trilogy? Bible, Edda and Lovecraft.

Man, you looove some chaos!

[Snark Knight]

As far as I see it, the Fomor are probably pawns for the Outsiders. Their uprising was prepared to take advantage of what was supposed to be Arianna's plot to destroy the Council and overthrow her father, which means they're tied into the Circle with her. From the scale of the move they redirected to seizing Red assets when the latter fell, they seem to be mobilized on a full national scale to the Circle's plots, rather than just some of their members secretly working for the Circle as seen with Council and Vampire turncoats.

Pretty much the only solid information we have about their political structure is that their nobility are beholden to an Empress, but in some cases willing to disobey her sound long-term strategic instructions for sufficiently satisfying short-term gain. They're described as banded-together remnants of the dark sides of various fallen pantheons (including some close cousins of the Jotuns) united by their common interest in revenge. Given that Nemesis appears in mythology as the goddess of retribution, I've speculated before that their Empress might be a Nemesis host and the Fomor knowingly following the Outsiders in exchange for payback against the powers that drove them to the margins and for the promise of a place in the new order. Alternately, it's possible that their underwater court was close enough to the Sleeper that they fell under his mental influence.

Incidentally, the Black Court remnants have a similar motive to want revenge on the standing powers who screwed them over as the Fomor do, even if day-to-day they're mostly too busy surviving to act on such desires. I wouldn't be surprised if Fomor recruiting overtures towards making some Blampire allies become a factor before the end.

But in general terms, I think the BAT will be a collision of the apocalyptic agendas of at least Hell and the Old Ones with their various followers, with Ragnarok and a Blampire resurgence as possible components of the overall chaos.

[Griffyn612]

I have no problem with the general interpretation of HB and EN, with the obvious reference to a Christian apocalypse with one and the capstone being about the series' Big Bad.

But Stars and Stones... I'm not sure where I fall with that one. 

HB seems to be referencing some sound or signal that will ring when hell breaks loose (although which hell/Hel might be up for debate).  EN seems to be a celestial event that Mab references once, tying it to her interests (Outsiders), and is one the Wamps like to invoke, who have at least one tie to Outsiders.

But S&S seems to reference... stars and planets.  Or asteroids crashing down.  Or fire and brimstone falling from the sky after volcanic eruptions.  Or something else. 

I'm not sure what that specifically has to do with the Fomor, or Ragnarok, or any other pantheon.  Which is a problem.

I feel like there is likely a more direct corollary between the title and the events. 

[jonas]

I have no problem with the general interpretation of HB and EN, with the obvious reference to a Christian apocalypse with one and the capstone being about the series' Big Bad.

But Stars and Stones... I'm not sure where I fall with that one. 

HB seems to be referencing some sound or signal that will ring when hell breaks loose (although which hell/Hel might be up for debate).  EN seems to be a celestial event that Mab references once, tying it to her interests (Outsiders), and is one the Wamps like to invoke, who have at least one tie to Outsiders.

But S&S seems to reference... stars and planets.  Or asteroids crashing down.  Or fire and brimstone falling from the sky after volcanic eruptions.  Or something else. 

I'm not sure what that specifically has to do with the Fomor, or Ragnarok, or any other pantheon.  Which is a problem.

I feel like there is likely a more direct corollary between the title and the events.

Most likely it's a reference to parts of the Biblical Apocalypse crossed with two or 3 major things mentioned as 'stone',(which could all end up being one and the same sources... the stars or the core of them, their identity, ect.) Mostly though the idea of stars falling as 'stones'.. but let's see, we have MW's traveling stone, the 5 stars on Lady Nights neck in CH, the stone coffins surrounding MW's cottage(some of which have broken and crumbled), the stone table(which just might be our 'stone' for star ratio?) Starborn themselves of course...
Mostly the problem defining it is it's a definite mash up by JB for his own apocalyptic story... But I maintain the idea of fallen star particle/identities as the manifestation of his own biblical crossover..
 And realized writing it the answer is likely simple... I keep looking at the replaying of the same story but I forgot the current rendition will have one of it's own despite being tied to TWG's version and the outsider/undead versions... It will be about the rise of the new order of mythos specifically, about the defining of the current Generation, the big reveal, the empire striking back, starborn demystified, rise of the new pantheon, ect.
It makes total sense to give definition to the overarc their... on a thematic level of course, but i'd bet dollars to donuts now that I've thought of it. It's the apocalypse created in the NOW.

[Snark Knight]

But S&S seems to reference... stars and planets.  Or asteroids crashing down.  Or fire and brimstone falling from the sky after volcanic eruptions.  Or something else. 

Some sort of astronomical conjunction?

Gah, we don't need another one to wonder about before we even have what Starborn actually is settled.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

I still think there is a chance Empty Night will be a very small-scale, Scouring of the Shire follow-up to two huge apocalyptic books, and if so I'd guess it will be about the White Court.

[wardenferry419]

I am thinking the following:
BAT1. A small victory at the end of a seemingly hopeless situation.
BAT2. Bad guys get angry and hit back hard.
BAT3. Big rally for all or nothing battle.
Basically, Star Wars; hence Harry's poster that he had forever.

[jonas]

I am thinking the following:
BAT1. A small victory at the end of a seemingly hopeless situation.
BAT2. Bad guys get angry and hit back hard.
BAT3. Big rally for all or nothing battle.
Basically, Star Wars; hence Harry's poster that he had forever.

Lol

defining of the current Generation, the big reveal, the empire striking back, starborn demystified, rise of the new pantheon, ect.

I quite agree.

[Rasins]

Do we know the order of the titles for the BAT?

[wardenferry419]

I think HB, then S&S, and finally EN, I guess.