What happened to the rest of the Alpha's?

[Con]

I've been thinking really that the Alpha's went from a pack of a dozen who went through at least two trial by fire's together, to about four or five at most.

The War Buddy Bond is tough to crack.

So what exactly happened to cause the Alpha's to split up. Because right now I'm thinking Billy's a pretty shit Alpha  of the Alpha's if he lets 12 pack go down to 4 after they've already been through some bonding experience together.

We do have this WOJ.
quote=Jim Butcher]Q:  What happened to the other Alphas?
A:  Like happens with a lot of kids after college, they graduated and went their separate ways.  Some of them wrote off the whole experience as the result of taking drugs in college.  One ended up super religious.  One ended up institutionalized.  Given Kirby’s death, Billy is going to try to track down some of the group[/quote]

What was the catalyst for this? People don't wind up super religious or institutionalised or in deep denial without some sort of catalyst.

[Snark Knight]

What was the catalyst for this? People don't wind up super religious or institutionalised or in deep denial without some sort of catalyst.

Side effect of "Marcie" the deep-cover supervillain messing with their heads?

He said, half-jokingly. Half.

[jonas]

Side effect of "Marcie" the deep-cover supervillain messing with their heads?

He said, half-jokingly. Half.

Is Marci a wolf? I was thinking she was paranet... If she is wolfy, perhaps she is... I surmised the whole point of FM was to release the beast and cause the spell to break while finding another to Nfect with the spirit of rage. But Murphy killed Denton, the Alpha's are the ones who are left that could mirror the thing... I was thinking it was a lost Alpha gone beastial, but Marci would work.

[Griffyn612]

Side effect of "Marcie" the deep-cover supervillain messing with their heads?

He said, half-jokingly. Half.

Ugh.

I've been thinking really that the Alpha's went from a pack of a dozen who went through at least two trial by fire's together, to about four or five at most.

The War Buddy Bond is tough to crack.

So what exactly happened to cause the Alpha's to split up. Because right now I'm thinking Billy's a pretty shit Alpha  of the Alpha's if he lets 12 pack go down to 4 after they've already been through some bonding experience together.

We do have this WOJ.

Q:  What happened to the other Alphas?
A:  Like happens with a lot of kids after college, they graduated and went their separate ways.  Some of them wrote off the whole experience as the result of taking drugs in college.  One ended up super religious.  One ended up institutionalized.  Given Kirby’s death, Billy is going to try to track down some of the group

What was the catalyst for this? People don't wind up super religious or institutionalised or in deep denial without some sort of catalyst.

There were 11-13 young people gathered together when Harry first saw them near the beginning of FM.  But there were only five in wolf form on his raid at the end of FM.

Later, in SK, there 10-11 piled into the van to join him in the climactic battle.  But that included Meryl and Fix, which puts the Alphas at 9-10.  But then, a few pages later, it's half a dozen boy wolves and half a dozen girl wolves, bringing it up to a full dozen, assuming he's not rounding up.

But after that, I don't think we see them in any numbers greater than four or five.  Personally, I'd chalk it up to them being high schoolers playing around with magic, but after the events of Summer Knight, a bunch quit, having seen the other things out there.

[wardenferry419]

Griffyn, are you not in favor of the idea that Marci may be shady? Marci, Marcie, Marcy, how the heck is her name spelled?

[Con]

I trust Murphy's instincts and she was suspiscious that she showed up at an inconvenient time.

Plus you know she doesn't think with her dick, and think awww poor little female needs help. Even post Lash Harry doesn't always get that right, although admittedly he saw through Roseanna, just not Hannah Ascher.

[wardenferry419]

Wait....Murphy has a penis?! Well, that explains alot about relationship problems.

[Griffyn612]

Griffyn, are you not in favor of the idea that Marci may be shady? Marci, Marcie, Marcy, how the heck is her name spelled?

Marcy invaded Marcone's property, joined with Harry to battle Sidhe Queens, protected a piece of Chicago along with the other Alphas while in school, showed up for her friend after she lost her boyfriend, and helped rescue her friends when they were kidnapped.

Not to mention she worked on animation over at Skywalker Ranch.

By comparison, we have Murphy, who has shown questionable judgment numerous times due to her cop-like tendencies.  She automatically suspects everyone.  She assumes the worst about someone until they prove themselves otherwise.

So I don't trust all of Murphy's instincts.  Were the circumstances around Marcy suspicious in Aftermath?  Yes.  But the only way Marcy would betray her friends is if she was enthralled.  By no means do I believe that she's Mavra, or some other Big Bad, in disguise.  Not unless the Marcy in Aftermath was a complete replacement to the one Harry knew for years.

[RobReece]

What was the catalyst for this? People don't wind up super religious or institutionalised or in deep denial without some sort of catalyst.

you don't think the battle they experienced in SK could have been sufficient, or if they were around long enough to see Kirby eviscerated?  There could very well have been other close calls while they protected the area around the university that just didn't make the books.  Any of these could have shook someone enough to send them over the edge or to the church.

[wardenferry419]

Marcy invaded Marcone's property, joined with Harry to battle Sidhe Queens, protected a piece of Chicago along with the other Alphas while in school, showed up for her friend after she lost her boyfriend, and helped rescue her friends when they were kidnapped.

Not to mention she worked on animation over at Skywalker Ranch.

By comparison, we have Murphy, who has shown questionable judgment numerous times due to her cop-like tendencies.  She automatically suspects everyone.  She assumes the worst about someone until they prove themselves otherwise.

So I don't trust all of Murphy's instincts.  Were the circumstances around Marcy suspicious in Aftermath?  Yes.  But the only way Marcy would betray her friends is if she was enthralled.  By no means do I believe that she's Mavra, or some other Big Bad, in disguise.  Not unless the Marcy in Aftermath was a complete replacement to the one Harry knew for years.

This why I am suspicious of her. She left Skywalker Ranch. Noone leaves Skywalker Ranch.

[Griffyn612]

This why I am suspicious of her. She left Skywalker Ranch. Noone leaves Skywalker Ranch.

Maybe she didn't like working on SW:TCW?

[Mr. Death]

We do have this WOJ.
quote=Jim Butcher]Q:  What happened to the other Alphas?
A:  Like happens with a lot of kids after college, they graduated and went their separate ways.  Some of them wrote off the whole experience as the result of taking drugs in college.  One ended up super religious.  One ended up institutionalized.  Given Kirby’s death, Billy is going to try to track down some of the group

What was the catalyst for this? People don't wind up super religious or institutionalised or in deep denial without some sort of catalyst.

Nothing in that WOJ is so unusual that it needs some big, group-wide "catalyst." People I knew ten years ago, today I wouldn't recognize. Hell, some people I knew 10 years ago as close friends are dead.

A guy I knew in high school was full-blown, gung-ho marine, Semper Fi never die. Now every time he posts on facebook, at least half a dozen of our mutual friends report him as a potential terrorist.

Another guy I knew even longer than that, he was one of my closest friends, and now he's on drugs and semi-regularly threatening another friend's mother.

(Yes, both have been reported to the authorities when these things happen).

Another guy was a pain in the ass to me throughout middle and high school, and the other day we reminisced together while I was walking my dog and he was doing yard work with his young son.

My mother has a friend who, in college, was a party-girl trouble-maker. Now she's a pastor, to the shock of everyone who knew her growing up, including her.

People grow up. Things happen. That's one of the things I love about The Dresden Files -- that the world turns, people grow and change, even when Harry isn't watching them. I don't see any reason to suspect that the WOJ was anything other than what actually happened.

As for Marci, y'all are forgetting the second bit about Murphy's "instincts."

All the same, I wasn’t sure. She sounded sincere to me, and I’m
pretty good at knowing when someone isn’t. But there’s always a
better liar out there. I just wasn’t sure.
But . . . you have to trust someone, sometime. Even when it
seems risky, when lives are on the line.
Maybe even especially then.

The takeaway from the scene is, explicitly, "Sometimes you have to trust people." And when Murphy trusts Marcy -- when she's not being uber-suspicious -- Marcy proves that she's on their side, a friend and helps at great personal risk and injury.

I don't see how the takeaway from that ever translates into, "Marcy is an evil shapeshifter vampire sleeper agent."

I trust Murphy's instincts and she was suspiscious that she showed up at an inconvenient time.

Plus you know she doesn't think with her dick, and think awww poor little female needs help. Even post Lash Harry doesn't always get that right, although admittedly he saw through Roseanna, just not Hannah Ascher.

Murphy's instincts in the same scene tell her, "Jesus Christ, all you're doing is scaring the crap out of this poor girl who came here to help, lighten the hell up."

[wardenferry419]

It doesn't have to be that bad. Marcy could be disturbed with unresolved feeling for Andi.

[wardenferry419]

Maybe she didn't like working on SW:TCW?

That could be possible.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

By comparison, we have Murphy, who has shown questionable judgment numerous times due to her cop-like tendencies.  She automatically suspects everyone.  She assumes the worst about someone until they prove themselves otherwise.
So I don't trust all of Murphy's instincts. 

This plus, at that point Murphy is still in shock from losing Harry, and headed for the state of hardened we see her in GS.  So if there's any point in the series at which to expect Murphy to be more off than usual in her judgement, that is likely it.