Unsolved Mystery Book10 the disappearing coin trick

[Kindler]

Doesn't Thorny eat magic kinda like Papa Raith's protection spell?

I got the sense that the function by which he "ate" the spell was qualitatively different from Papa Raith. Eb described it as magic sliding off him; Thorny waved a hand and "ate" it. Lord Raith's was passive protection, Thorny's was active, if that makes sense. At least, that's how I read it.

[jonas]

I got the sense that the function by which he "ate" the spell was qualitatively different from Papa Raith. Eb described it as magic sliding off him; Thorny waved a hand and "ate" it. Lord Raith's was passive protection, Thorny's was active, if that makes sense. At least, that's how I read it.

Same antimagic force to it though yea?

[Kindler]

Same antimagic force to it though yea?

No. One is Pam on a frying pan, the other is teflon. Stuff doesn't stick to it, but the way it's done is different; same outcome, different means. Outsider sponsorship is not the only means by which magic can be negated; we saw that with the Genoskwa, which grounded magic out passively.

[wardenferry419]

Does Thorny gain in power when eating magic or is it dispersed?

[jonas]

No. One is Pam on a frying pan, the other is teflon. Stuff doesn't stick to it, but the way it's done is different; same outcome, different means. Outsider sponsorship is not the only means by which magic can be negated; we saw that with the Genoskwa, which grounded magic out passively.

.... Na man, pretty sure that's the whole point of Necromancy/darkmagic/antilife connectives. positive and negative force. both things come from the negative sources.

[Zohak]

Thorny Nem played a shell game and bolted al binder like.
Or the Dens tricked or weakened her enough   Ivy into taking the coin
while she was in the cage. To gain info on OW or other uses.

[Kindler]

.... Na man, pretty sure that's the whole point of Necromancy/darkmagic/antilife connectives. positive and negative force. both things come from the negative sources.

The point is that there is more than one negative source. Some from here, some from Outside. The function by which Thorny ate Dresden's magic is described totally differently. One is implicitly from Outsider sponsorship. The other doesn't have to be.

[jonas]

The point is that there is more than one negative source. Some from here, some from Outside. The function by which Thorny ate Dresden's magic is described totally differently. One is implicitly from Outsider sponsorship. The other doesn't have to be.

Yea, that.

[Rasins]

The way I read it was, that Pappa Raiths version is like a black-hole.  You could just keep dumping more and more in and it just goes away.

Where as Thorny's was more like he took it into himself.

Kind of like if you threw a hamburger at Raith, a gravitional force moved it into a trashcan.  Thorny caught the hamburger and consumed it.

[Arjan]

It fell into the cold and dark waters of the lake and Mab picked it up. Thorned Namshiel is currently in a block of ice being tortured by Mab.

[Rasins]

It fell into the cold and dark waters of the lake and Mab picked it up. Thorned Namshiel is currently in a block of ice being tortured by Mab.

That is a great image, but I don't think this is the case.  It's not in the nature of the coins to remain out of circulation.

[Kindler]

That is a great image, but I don't think this is the case.  It's not in the nature of the coins to remain out of circulation.

Yeah, but it hasn't been very long, just a couple of years. That's milliseconds to a Fallen. We still haven't seen Cassius's Coin come back, for example, though we've seen Ursiel's, which was delivered to the Church at the same time (within a day or two, I think). Neither of them were there during Small Favor, when every Denarian left was present.

Lasciel's was on the bench for, what, four years, max? White Night through Cold Days/Skin Game? Cassius's has been out for ten, just about.

And if it did fall in the water, imagine if Cat Sith picked it up while he was down there; Nemesis/Thorny/Mab all warring for control of the Eldest Malk. That's a big ball of bad I'd like to see.

[Arjan]

That is a great image, but I don't think this is the case.  It's not in the nature of the coins to remain out of circulation.

It is not in their nature to meddle in the affairs of the Sidhe either. When they do they have to pay the price. And if the coin is really infected Mab has a legitimate reason to keep it as long as she guards the gates.

[jonas]

It is not in their nature to meddle in the affairs of the Sidhe either. When they do they have to pay the price. And if the coin is really infected Mab has a legitimate reason to keep it as long as she guards the gates.

I agree, but I also think that's the crux of it. She might have legitimately held the host/coin combo without any problem. But if you take something out of mortal hands that's specifically suppose to be in mortal hands I gotta think theirs some kinda backlash... This is perhaps a situation where Mab's own nature gets the better of her. When she held the WK it let the fetches come play... for the right reasons she can do the wrong thing.
Now we have two coins potentially out of mortal hands and the apocalypse is brewing, I find this a likely coincidence. Any other major force we've seen put on 'ice' or clay, that's not supposed to be has had major backlash. And oh look, now we have walkers just strolling around reality at will without any sort of host.

[Kindler]

I agree, but I also think that's the crux of it. She might have legitimately held the host/coin combo without any problem. But if you take something out of mortal hands that's specifically suppose to be in mortal hands I gotta think theirs some kinda backlash... This is perhaps a situation where Mab's own nature gets the better of her. When she held the WK it let the fetches come play... for the right reasons she can do the wrong thing.
Now we have two coins potentially out of mortal hands and the apocalypse is brewing, I find this a likely coincidence. Any other major force we've seen put on 'ice' or clay, that's not supposed to be has had major backlash. And oh look, now we have walkers just strolling around reality at will without any sort of host.

(If this sounds sarcastic or flippant, that isn't my intent): Are you suggesting that disrupting the Order of things—in this case by removing the Coins from mortal circulation with Lasciel's, Ursiel's, and Thorny's in the possession of Mab and Hades—that there will be backlash, and that the Walkers manifesting in our reality represents this backlash?

Also, yes, remember that Hades has both Lasciel and Ursiel; the Gensokwa was killed at the Ice Gate, and Harry didn't retrieve his Coin.

If I understand correctly, that's an interesting idea. I'm not sure how that would be explained if it's the case. Mac says there are three Walkers, and there are three Coins out of mortal hands now. This goes against the idea that Nemesis is He Who Walks Beside, of course, so maybe we'll see the third Walker come out to play soon.