Will Harry meet the real Maeve?

[groinkick]

I was thinking that the shade of Maeve may have been left on the Island.  The Maeve without the corruption of Nemesis, or the personality altering Mantle.  What do you think?  Could she pass information to Harry if he gets in contact with her?  What do you think she'd be like?  Maybe she has input from Nemesis since it possessed her.

[wardenferry419]

That would require Morty, Fitz, or a special ointment by Harry; since those have been thee three ways to contact the dead.

[Rasins]

I like the thought.  Maybe that's how he'll what he learned in GS. 

[LordDresden2]

I was thinking that the shade of Maeve may have been left on the Island.  The Maeve without the corruption of Nemesis, or the personality altering Mantle.  What do you think?  Could she pass information to Harry if he gets in contact with her?  What do you think she'd be like?  Maybe she has input from Nemesis since it possessed her.

Do Sidhe generate shades?

[Arjan]

Do Sidhe generate shades?

And why would that shade be free of the spiritual infection that is nemesis? This is what Maeve has become, she does not suddenly loose it when dead.

[Griffyn612]

Well, in my interpretation, shades are what's left of the spiritual energy of a being.  But since WoJ says a Queen loses her soul, and likely along with it any sense of individually, I can't imagine there'd be much of anything left of the original host spiritually that isn't incorporated into the mantle.

Besides, shades of former Queens would be very, very bad from a security standpoint.  I'd imagine the Queens would endeavor to make sure any remnant of a Queen's knowledge wouldn't be free to fall into the hands of others.

[Arjan]

Well, in my interpretation, shades are what's left of the spiritual energy of a being.  But since WoJ says a Queen loses her soul, and likely along with it any sense of individually, I can't imagine there'd be much of anything left of the original host spiritually that isn't incorporated into the mantle.

Besides, shades of former Queens would be very, very bad from a security standpoint.  I'd imagine the Queens would endeavor to make sure any remnant of a Queen's knowledge wouldn't be free to fall into the hands of others.

At the end of ghost story Harry’s soul is still there but according to Uriel his spiritual energy was nearly gone and the other ghosts/spirits/shades couldn’t even see him.

Harry’s essence, as Mab called it, was still there.

Maeve was only a few hundred years old so I doubt the essence of Maeve was completely gone. Her childly behaviour, her mommy issues, her rejecting the status quo. It is all Maeve. Not a nice person but an easy victim for Nemesis because of that.

But even then a soul needs spiritual energy to express itself in the spirit world otherwise only beings like Uriel and Mouse could see her.

[Kimmy T]

We may get to see what might have happened to Maeve if things turned out differently in the upcoming Book 17, Mirror Mirror.  In that book, Harry is summoned into an alternate reality in which he made one decision differently, and as a result everything turned out completely different.  One of the differences between our Harry's reality and this new Mirror Mirror reality could be that Harry's interactions with the fairies turned out completely different.  Aurora and Maeve could still be alive and still be Winter Ladies.  Harry may never have became the Winter Knight.  Lilly and Fix might still be changelings.  And Sarissa might still be trapped between Mab and Maeve.  Anything is possible.

[Griffyn612]

Maeve was only a few hundred years old so I doubt the essence of Maeve was completely gone. Her childly behaviour, her mommy issues, her rejecting the status quo. It is all Maeve.

This is where semantics come into play. 

We know humans have a body that retains a lot of memory, a spirit that retains some memory, and a soul that retains all memory.

I'd argue that as a Queen, Maeve lost her soul and spirit, but retained her physical brain memory of who she was. 

But that's just my working theory.

[Arjan]

This is where semantics come into play. 

We know humans have a body that retains a lot of memory, a spirit that retains some memory, and a soul that retains all memory.

I'd argue that as a Queen, Maeve lost her soul and spirit, but retained her physical brain memory of who she was. 

But that's just my working theory.

The ladies are immortal which means that even if you destroy their bodies they will return with memories. That means it is not the brain that is kept, it is the spirit.

And the spirit can harbour a soul (see Harry in ghost story) or not. The body can harbour a spirit.

Molly's fast travel at the end of skin game is suspicious. I got a vague impression that she might have traveled in spirit form as a cold winter wind and just reassembled her body when needed.

Even not immortal sidhe like Lea are beings from both the mortal world and the spirit world. So Maeves spirit was still intact, it is her soul that she was slowly losing.

That is my working theory anyway. I see no reason why Maeve should have lost both spirit and soul. Especially since the loosing of soul can be creeping but the loss of spirit is not.

[Rasins]

We may get to see what might have happened to Maeve if things turned out differently in the upcoming Book 17, Mirror Mirror.  In that book, Harry is summoned into an alternate reality in which he made one decision differently, and as a result everything turned out completely different.  One of the differences between our Harry's reality and this new Mirror Mirror reality could be that Harry's interactions with the fairies turned out completely different.  Aurora and Maeve could still be alive and still be Winter Ladies.  Harry may never have became the Winter Knight.  Lilly and Fix might still be changelings.  And Sarissa might still be trapped between Mab and Maeve.  Anything is possible.

I doubt there will be any difference in Maeve, from a Nemfection perspective.

Jim has said that the decision Harry makes that makes the difference is at the end of GP.  By then the party had already taken place and the Atheme that infected Leah, and then Maeve had already been passed on to them.

[groinkick]

And why would that shade be free of the spiritual infection that is nemesis? This is what Maeve has become, she does not suddenly loose it when dead.

Do you have proof that a spirit or shade has been Nemesis infected?  As Jim has said, Nemesis isn't some all powerful thing.

[groinkick]

I'd argue that as a Queen, Maeve lost her soul and spirit

Jim said that Mab might even still have some soul left.  I don't see why Maeve would be completely void of a soul.

[Arjan]

Do you have proof that a spirit or shade has been Nemesis infected?  As Jim has said, Nemesis isn't some all powerful thing.

Did I imply it was all powerful?

A spiritual infection is nothing new. Touching a denarian coin is enough to infect you and Lash did change Harry though not in the way intended.

Nemesis is also a spiritual infection that can change your nature, your spirit. It gives Maeve the ability to lie which she s against her nature. Her nature, her spirit was changed nu the infection. And that infection was carried nu an object of power.

[Kindler]

I doubt there will be any difference in Maeve, from a Nemfection perspective.

Jim has said that the decision Harry makes that makes the difference is at the end of GP.  By then the party had already taken place and the Atheme that infected Leah, and then Maeve had already been passed on to them.

Harry's choice may have changed the circumstances of Lea's infection, or otherwise hampered her ability to spread it. Lea may be infected, but that doesn't mean Maeve was.

And, I think, it's open to interpretation what "the end" of Grave Peril is from Jim's perspective. I'm still pushing the concept that it was Harry's choice to use Amoracchius dishonorably that was different, though, so I'm pretty biased.