Knight Ceremony [Cold Case Spoilers]

[forumghost]

Specifically on the MurphyDresden topic that spawned your “poor nice guys” tangent, I don’t know why Murphy would even consider getting involved with Dresden. That guy is an emotional train wreck and his life is a mess now. Years earlier, he was just a weird guy she knew who lived in a basement and had no money. They had no real connection then, so I’d be shocked if a successful career police officer would get into a relationship with him at that point.

In Murphy's case it's because she's just as much of a train wreck as far as personal relationships are concerned.

Married her first husband when she was 17. He was way older than her and they had a terrible on-off relationship. Her second husband was an A-Hole that left her because she refused to spend her life pregnant and in the kitchen, and then Married her younger sister (whom she also doesn't get along with) as a follow up.

As far as we know her next relationship was with Kincaid, an immortal demonic murderer for hire. And then there's the newly formed/forming relationship with Harry. Despite having spent years finding new excuses to avoid a relationship with him, now that he's constantly a hair's breath away from murdering and/or raping anyone within shouting distance, she's suddenly keen.

So yeah... Either Murphy is very much part of the "All Women want Bad Boys" Cliche, or she's just self-destructive to a degree that puts Harry to shame.

[wardenferry419]

 I often wished they did one of those "Psychology of" or "Philosophy of" books on the Dresden Files. But,  as far as what Ananda stated, "bad boys" don't always send "good girls" to the hospital or therapy. But, it happens enough times for it to be a common theme of a Cops or Jerry Springer episode. Nerd wish fulfillment is a real thing and it kept comic books rolling for almost a century. Molly did try to follow her mother's footsteps with Harry. Charity was rescued by and married a hero of goodness and faith. Molly wanted a darker hero, hence Harry.
Forumghost and Arjan had some good points. The mutual relationship trainwreckness of Harry and Murphy is a given. Murphy expressed feelings that WK Harry is more dangerous and out-of-control. Didn't stop her from saying "yes" to a relationship.And jerks do have more confidence than intelligent people. Jerks "know" they are right without reason and that iswhere they get their surety and confidence. Intelligent people think they may be right but are waiting for proof or a valid argument that disproves their idea.

[Arjan]

Confidence also comes from success. That might be what makes it attractive.

So if girls fall for confident men they get even more confident which will spiral into....

[Rasins]

The other part of the Women seek out bad boys who are bad for them is also all the complaints we hear from these same women.

As to Molly not following Charity's footsteps, that's not true.  Harry saved her from a big bad, and he's a STRONG man of faith.  Not in Christianity, but he has very strong faith.

[Arjan]

We see Harry from inside his own head which distorts a few things, other people see him differently.

The first time Karen really wanted Harry was just after they destroyed the red court. That was a real display of strength and confidence. Harry in action is quite different from normal Harry as Karen mentioned in aftermath.

Now Harry has changed again. The mantle made him stronger, more confident and he had just invited her to go to hell and back with him. That is all very different from a geek in a basement. That was not enough in Cold Days because strength is a problem if you have not enough control.

I do not think people fall for bad, they fall for strength and confidence and sometimes being bad is confused with being strong.

[Rasins]

We see Harry from inside his own head which distorts a few things, other people see him differently.

The first time Karen really wanted Harry was just after they destroyed the red court. That was a real display of strength and confidence. Harry in action is quite different from normal Harry as Karen mentioned in aftermath.

Now Harry has changed again. The mantle made him stronger, more confident and he had just invited her to go to hell and back with him. That is all very different from a geek in a basement. That was not enough in Cold Days because strength is a problem if you have not enough control.

I do not think people fall for bad, they fall for strength and confidence and sometimes being bad is confused with being strong.

I can see this.

[Cozarkian]

The other factor people always overlook is challenge. We are all aware of the stereotype that men like a challenge when it comes to women - the traditional concept of courting, guy chases girl until she catches him, advice to women not to give it up on the first date, etc..., but nobody ever stops to think that many women also enjoy a challenge. Many nice guys make the mistake of being dutiful and available to the women at all times, which makes the nice guy boring. "Jerks" on the other hand flirt with multiple women, wait a few days a call, and generally don't act like the girl is the center of their world, all of which makes them more desirable by adding challenge to the mix.

[wardenferry419]

I would rather be nice and boring than have to deal with pain and drama. Life gives me too much already.

[Ananda]

In Murphy's case it's because she's just as much of a train wreck as far as personal relationships are concerned.

Married her first husband when she was 17. He was way older than her and they had a terrible on-off relationship. Her second husband was an A-Hole that left her because she refused to spend her life pregnant and in the kitchen, and then Married her younger sister (whom she also doesn't get along with) as a follow up.

As far as we know her next relationship was with Kincaid, an immortal demonic murderer for hire. And then there's the newly formed/forming relationship with Harry. Despite having spent years finding new excuses to avoid a relationship with him, now that he's constantly a hair's breath away from murdering and/or raping anyone within shouting distance, she's suddenly keen.

So yeah... Either Murphy is very much part of the "All Women want Bad Boys" Cliche, or she's just self-destructive to a degree that puts Harry to shame.

Remember, Butcher wrote her. She’s not a real person. His depictions of women aren’t the best. I enjoy the story, but his female characters didn’t really ring true to me. He’s certainly mot alone in that, though. On the other side, Anne Rice’s male characters often came off as as middle aged women, especially in her later books. The funny thing about her female characters is they mostly were uninteresting or tried to act very male. There were a few good ones, though.

Also, failed past relationships don’t compare to suicide guy who lives on a haunted island, is under the control of an amoral faerie queen and is at the center of an inter dimensional war. Dresden’s life is terrible. 

[Avernite]

Remember, Butcher wrote her. She’s not a real person. His depictions of women aren’t the best. I enjoy the story, but his female characters didn’t really ring true to me. He’s certainly mot alone in that, though. On the other side, Anne Rice’s male characters often came off as as middle aged women, especially in her later books. The funny thing about her female characters is they mostly were uninteresting or tried to act very male. There were a few good ones, though.

Also, failed past relationships don’t compare to suicide guy who lives on a haunted island, is under the control of an amoral faerie queen and is at the center of an inter dimensional war. Dresden’s life is terrible.

Plus he has killed all his girlfriends, or at least tried to.

Granted Luccio wasn't his girlfriend yet when he did it, and there were extenuating circumstances both there and with Susan, but damn. Would not want to be Murphy!

[wardenferry419]

Remember, Butcher wrote her. She’s not a real person. His depictions of women aren’t the best. I enjoy the story, but his female characters didn’t really ring true to me. He’s certainly mot alone in that, though. On the other side, Anne Rice’s male characters often came off as as middle aged women, especially in her later books. The funny thing about her female characters is they mostly were uninteresting or tried to act very male. There were a few good ones, though.

Also, failed past relationships don’t compare to suicide guy who lives on a haunted island, is under the control of an amoral faerie queen and is at the center of an inter dimensional war. Dresden’s life is terrible.

It is not a competition as to who is the bigger trainwreck. Harry will usually win that one. I am saying that as far as relationships go, neither Murphy nor Harry have the best track record. Women often don't know how to write men. Men often don't know how to write women.

[jonas]

It is not a competition as to who is the bigger trainwreck. Harry will usually win that one. I am saying that as far as relationships go, neither Murphy nor Harry have the best track record. Women often don't know how to write men. Men often don't know how to write women.

If the veil between sexes were that easily pierced every would be doing it.

[wardenferry419]

Veil for you, brick wall for me.

[Ananda]

Plus he has killed all his girlfriends, or at least tried to.

Granted Luccio wasn't his girlfriend yet when he did it, and there were extenuating circumstances both there and with Susan, but damn. Would not want to be Murphy!

Haha! Good point! And, Lucio was mind-controlled into a non-consensual relationship with him! And, Dresden is constantly bringing up Molly’s traing bra. What a creep!

Wardenferry, what I’m saying about Murphy and Dresden being a terrible couple comes down to looking at it through a normal woman’s point of view.

Dresden was not someone she really felt much for early on. She was a successful, career orientated woman and Dresden was a weird poor guy who lived in a shitty basement with no electricity. He acted like a complete whackadoodle from her point of view. She had zero reason to be interested in him. Also, he’s not described as particularly attractive as far as I recall.

Midway through the story, she learns more about him, but he’s still this bizarre outsider who lies to her regularly. And, he didn’t get richer or better looking.

Later, coming to where we are now, his life is in such a state of ruin that, even with her loss of career and sense of identity (“I’m a cop, Harry”), it’s still a terrible idea to get involved with him just because she’s used to him. He is living at the extreme edge now more than ever. There is really no future there for her; just drama, trauma and death on all sides. She’s in her mid or late forties now? There was never any real passion between them. This getting together out of comfort or being used to him (settling essentially), I could see, if not for the death and destruction on all sides.

So, no, I don’t see Murphy’s reason for it. Dresden’s, yes. Murphy’s, no.

The Molly thing just seems like pure fantasy like Andi and Butters.

[wardenferry419]

I think Harry's death changed Murphy's tune. People often realize something when it's too late; this time it really wasn't too late.