Knight Ceremony [Cold Case Spoilers]

[Griffyn612]

Have we discussed Harry's knighting ceremony in light of the Cold Case revelations about the Winter Lady's restrictions?

If Maeve handled Slate's initiation along with his selection, does that mean that there was no technical purpose to Mab's method of initiation with Harry?

Or do we think that Maeve picked Slate, and Mab handled the initiation?

[Rasins]

Have we discussed Harry's knighting ceremony in light of the Cold Case revelations about the Winter Lady's restrictions?

If Maeve handled Slate's initiation along with his selection, does that mean that there was no technical purpose to Mab's method of initiation with Harry?

Or do we think that Maeve picked Slate, and Mab handled the initiation?

I was going to bring up Lily and her choosing of her knight.  But we really don't know HOW that happened.  It was off screen, so .... hmmmm...

[jonas]

Have we discussed Harry's knighting ceremony in light of the Cold Case revelations about the Winter Lady's restrictions?

If Maeve handled Slate's initiation along with his selection, does that mean that there was no technical purpose to Mab's method of initiation with Harry?

Or do we think that Maeve picked Slate, and Mab handled the initiation?

From what I can see, the act is the inception of 'creating' a personified WK undiluted by any influence from previous hosts. So Mab didn't make a new one for Slate, but passed it along to her directly as it was already in existence. Similar to how SK went directly to the SL, and then to Lily while she still held Ruel's(?) head up cupping it in her hand. No boink required. It's the inception that matters.
My queery is on the Mother/Crone... She get's to be so after successfully birthing something? I think the WK is always that something, but is not always successfully done. Kringle likely came from a similar source(just as Pre WK Harry is Tall Runner like Odin and Kringle is Weight lifter like WK Harry). Even though it's part of Mab's power, just like Lash, it's impressed upon something malleable still. Also why she fragged Slate the way she did, knife an stone table an all.

[wardenferry419]

I don't think "sexing" the WK is necessary. That was probably a bit of showmanship by Mab along with the live broadcasting. But, I do believe that the new knight has to kill the old knight. That would follow with the predatory nature of the mantle. As far as the Summer courts go, I would guess a more civil transference of power.

[Cozarkian]

I don't think "sexing" the WK is necessary. That was probably a bit of showmanship by Mab along with the live broadcasting. But, I do believe that the new knight has to kill the old knight. That would follow with the predatory nature of the mantle. As far as the Summer courts go, I would guess a more civil transference of power.

The three Queens might have different ways of passing the mantle, and the Mother's method could be sex.

Knights can die at anytime, so killing the previous knight can't yeah requirement. However I do think there is a secret that the Queen's cannot kill their own knight. That is why Lilly tried to kill Harry, but Maeve personally only ever tried to seduce him. Also, Mab told Harry he would die before he could pull the trigger, not that she would kill him.

[wardenferry419]

ohh, good thought about Queens not being able to kill their knights.

[Ananda]

But, I do believe that the new knight has to kill the old knight. That would follow with the predatory nature of the mantle.

I didn’t read the short story in question, so the prohibition on sex, while sounding really odd and like some sort of weird afterthought by Butcher, is beyond my ken. However, the notion that a wk would have to kill the previous one doesn’t work for practical reasons; I guess most die in the field.

[wardenferry419]

I could be wrong. The two instances of a transference involved a summer knight mantle being placed in a hidden unwilling host and a broadcasted ritual of sacrifice against its tortured holder. So, maybe not the typical manner of transference. What do others think are the necessary components of a knight mantle being transferred?

[Ananda]

I could be wrong. The two instances of a transference involved a summer knight mantle being placed in a hidden unwilling host and a broadcasted ritual of sacrifice against its tortured holder. So, maybe not the typical manner of transference. What do others think are the necessary components of a knight mantle being transferred?

Loss of the mantle through vessel death or other form of removal and then transference by the empowered bestower to the new vessel. So, forfeiture, possession, transference.

[wardenferry419]

So, that would mean that one individual could temporarily be the vessal for two Fae mantles at the same time. Is that possible?

[raidem]

I'm confused.
Any of the Queens can hold the Knight power, and then bestow it upon their chosen.

[wardenferry419]

Does there have to be some kind of consensus among queens as to who gets the mantle?

[Snark Knight]

I don't think "sexing" the WK is necessary. That was probably a bit of showmanship by Mab along with the live broadcasting. But, I do believe that the new knight has to kill the old knight. That would follow with the predatory nature of the mantle. As far as the Summer courts go, I would guess a more civil transference of power.

Killing the former Knight can't be absolutely necessary to transfer the mantle, or else they'd be screwed when a Knight dies of something other than execution arranged by the Queen at the hands of his successor (most of the historical ones named in CD were killed by the mortal legal system for serial murders) or escapes (a la Tam Lin).

[raidem]

Probably not, though I'm sure they'd take it in mind.  It seems whoever has the knight mantle, bestows it.  If the queen chooses poorly, another queen can come along and take it and bestow it on someone worthy. So, I do think they try to find good recruits to everyone's satisfaction.

[wardenferry419]

So if sex with WK is not necessary for Mantle transference then why did Mab do it? Was it a show of power? I know Raidem will say it is Murphy finally getting to do something that she has waited a long time to do and, while Mab certainly showed alot of corresponding emotional intensity with the act, I wonder if their could be other reasons for the "sexing."