How would a new mantle be created

[dspringer1]

It is a given that new mantles can be created.   this is proved by the fact that we have Santa  Clause - a clearly recent invention - as a mantle held by Odin. 

What might such a new mantle look like.   I can speculate on some aspects
1) Mantles are tied to belief in some way   That is why so many mantles are tied to old gods.    Belief is also tied into the power of the Fey as evidenced by Mab's encouragement of the brothers grim fairy tales.   Belief is also tied into the ability to manifest into this world - as evidenced by the Oblivion war sidebars that show up in short stories.     However, many examples of mantles continuing after belief has waned, so not clear how important belief is in maintaining the power of a mantle. 

2) Mantles represent people -- the are personifications of a belief.   A mantle is not "gift giving", it is Santa Claus. 

3) Mantles require volume.   Lots of people have to believe for a sizable block of time.   There is no direct evidence of this, but it is logical.  The world is not buried in Mantles after all, so there must be a hard threshold that must be met. 

4) I wonder if a mantle can be deliberately created -- for example by a Norse god wanting to shelter some of his waning god-power.  He might break off a piece and "empower" a mantle for something meaningful in this new age - like Santa Claus.  That act might be required or it might simply speed the process up. 


Speculation on possible modern mantles
*  I think I can rule out super heroes, movie characters, or similar creations of pop culture.  People simply do not believe they are real. 

*  I think I can also rule out most conspiracy theories where belief is widespread and intense from the mantle creation possibility because they typically describe vague hidden forces rather than specific individuals. 

*  You might get a religious figure (the pope, etc), but these are not normally seen as "more than human" in that sense at least. 

*  You could have the "hidden special person" type mantle.  The mysterious figure in hiding from the modern world.   This could be the Dali Lama, Elvis, or Marylyn Monroe.   All it takes is a lot of people believing "they are still out there in hiding".    But you have the same problem as with the Pope.   Simply because they are hiding does not make them a figure of great and mysterious power -- which is what mantles provide. 

*  I could see "Murphy" as a mantle that is created.   Murphy as in Muprhy's Law, not Karin Murphy .  Many people believe and it is a personification of somewhat great and mysterious power. 

Other ideas?










And before anyone mentions it, i will acknowledge that it is possible that the total "pool of power" available to mantles could be fixed.   New mantles could simple be some portion of some old obsolete mantle refashioned into a new mantle.  After all, there are almost certainly mantles so old that they have lost meaning (and thus potentially vanished...).  However, for purposes of this question it does not matter if mantles are created new - or out of the "dust" of old obsolete mantles.   The key point is that "new" mantles can exist. 

[peregrine]

Jim has specifically said that the "Mantle" of Hercules became the Hulk.

[khadgar4606]

Jim has specifically said that the "Mantle" of Hercules became the Hulk.

than why herc and banner constantly duke it out for simple reasons.( hey that kinda explains why hulk is such chick magnet for powerful woman)

[forumghost]

I mean IIRC that particular "Mantle" now exists in the minds and imaginations of Mortals, so I guess it's just gone for all intents and purposes.

As to the OP... I'd say it depends. Mantles are about many things, I think, and so far we've only seen Fae ones. So some aren't going to follow the same rules as, for example, Mab- Which is why "Kris Kringle" is a Fae, but Odin ain't.

In regards to making new Mantles, I'll note that Jim has said that the Erlking could potentially break off a piece of his power to form a Mantle if he ever decided he wanted to be cool and have his own pet mortal Knight, so not all are necessarily bound by things like Faith.

[Snark Knight]

As to the OP... I'd say it depends. Mantles are about many things, I think, and so far we've only seen Fae ones. So some aren't going to follow the same rules as, for example, Mab- Which is why "Kris Kringle" is a Fae, but Odin ain't.

That would actually be a great question for a convention Q&A or a reddit AMA. What is the difference between a Fae monarch and a pagan god?

We know belief is important to the Fae on some level - they would have been legitimately F'ed if the (possibly rogue) Venator effort to get them forgotten hadn't been foiled by Mab's project with the Brothers Grimm. The Erlking seems to be in a similar position to Kringle, simultaneously a wyld king and a pagan god of the hunt.

[exartiem]

than why herc and banner constantly duke it out for simple reasons.( hey that kinda explains why hulk is such chick magnet for powerful woman)

Because Herc himself no longer holds that mantle and, consciously or unconsciously, wants it back.

[kazimmoinuddin]

I wonder if kemmler might have created something akin to a necromantic based mantle as his legacy. That could be seen as a form of immortality.

[wardenferry419]

I would say that mantle was never a deliberate act of Kemmler. He had the faith of a few; but, greater knowledge of his existence was limited to those with serious power and an opposition to his actions.

[forumghost]

I wonder if kemmler might have created something akin to a necromantic based mantle as his legacy. That could be seen as a form of immortality.

I think that was what he was trying to do. You know, before the Council ganked him. Then his apprentices went for a repeat in DB, and the killjoys killed them too.

Stupid Council and their dislike for necromantic godlings

[JJJP]

I would say there are no new Mantles, just old ones renamed. Or old Mantles rediscovered. Lying dormant waiting for a proper bearer.

[Snark Knight]

I would say there are no new Mantles, just old ones renamed. Or old Mantles rediscovered. Lying dormant waiting for a proper bearer.

Creating a new mantle was exactly what the Darkhallow was for. Bob said in Cold Days that the reason it had to be done on Halloween was to create a new immortal - he guessed Cowl would have understood that much, but not the other two contenders.

[dspringer1]

I would say there are no new Mantles, just old ones renamed. Or old Mantles rediscovered. Lying dormant waiting for a proper bearer.

Santa is a mantle - and the concept of Santa Claus has only been around for a few hundred years.   The Fey (and thus the mantle of Winter Lady) have only been around for maybe a thousand years. 

At the very least, this argues that mantles can be transformed, if not created from new.   

[wardenferry419]

I guess mantles have core elements but some adaptability to necessity.

[peregrine]

Creating a new mantle was exactly what the Darkhallow was for. Bob said in Cold Days that the reason it had to be done on Halloween was to create a new immortal - he guessed Cowl would have understood that much, but not the other two contenders.

Immortal need not be a Mantle, though.

[exartiem]

Kringle is the embodiment of charity during times of sparsity.  This concept has existed probably as long as civilization itself.  It is called Kringle now, but likely has been called by many other names.

I think most, if not all mantles are 1:representations of some concept, 2: control mechanisms for some force or 3: situational (such as Eldest Gruff).

So long as those conditions have existed, those mantles have as well.