Mab/Murphy Ironies

[raidem]

I finally found something resembling the woj I recalled. This isn't it though but it's close.

Jim Butcher Atlanta, GA 2011 signing.
Part of Part 4 through the end of the Q and A.

If it’s not a spoiler, what’s Murphy doing for a paycheck these days?
Well, if you stop and think about it, I’m sure it will occur to you. Of course, she didn’t talk about it with Dresden.

[raidem]

PR: Now, in terms of your plotting, it's one of the things that I'm terribly jealous of, because I'm comfortable with my world-building and other elements of my writing, but there are a couple things that you do that just so thoroughly out-class me, and one of them is the plotting, where you write these books that have, in themselves, great, very tight, very satisfying plots, but it's not like a sit-com. With a lot of series, you have the rise, and the fall, and the action, and then at the end of it, it's like the Simpsons - nothing is ever going to change in any permanent way. But in your books, you break that tradition in the episodic fantasy. How do you do that?! Teach me!
JB: Okay, basically, when I think of a book, what I'm actually writing is, like, Harry Dresden's worst weekend of the year that year. That's pretty much what I've got in mind. And then, to do that, I've got to figure out what are going to be awful things I'm going to have happen to him, what are going to be the cool things that I'm going to get to do within the story, and then after I put that all together, then I spend a lot of time between the books thinking, “okay, what's going to be the fallout from what's happened?” That's one of the things I've always taken to heart very seriously, is that actions have consequences, and choices have consequences, and you've got to live with them. So for Dresden, that's one of the fun things to do is to stop and think about,  “okay, now, this is what's been going on for the past six months, or eight months, or nine months, in the the Dresden universe. How is everybody who's actually in this book, how do they experience that?” Everyone has a slightly different experience based on who they are and what they bring to their point of view within the story. You know, Murphy experiences the world very differently from Dresden, very differently from Dresden's brother Thomas, and so on. It's mostly just a matter of sitting down and thinking it out, and figuring out, “how do they experience this? What kind of spin can I put on it that's going to make it a fun part of the story?”Murphy mostly gets crap at work as fallout from her stuff, but I killed Dresden at the end of Changes, so everybody had to sort of look around and suddenly realize “oh my gosh! Somebody shot the sheriff.” Who's going to be the one who's going to step into his boots, and nobody can, so we've all got to.

[raidem]

? Crazy-theory-discussion... WOJ: You've previously said that the Sidhe and Mab came from origins like Toot Toot and kind of took on responsibility and grew.  You've also said that every single Fae have come from mortal origins like changelings and Scions and stuff.  Could you reconcile these two apparently contradictory origins?
I could but I won't sing song I'm not gonna tell you.*  The Sidhe were created for a reason though.  They were created specifically by certain agents who no longer had as much influence on the world as they once did.  I've hinted at that in some previous books and I'll leave it at that and I'll leave the rest to you.  That's perfectly enough material to come up with fan crack theory.  And fan crack theory is awesome.   I love reading fan crack theory.  I will go through occasionally and look at the crack theory boards, and it's like excellent.    And occasionally its like 'ooh that's actually better than what I had planned..."(edited)

This is Jim expressing his appreciation of fan crack theory. He loves reading it. Some of it is excellent.  And occasionally, he likes it better than what he had planned. He says so.  So we thank those of you on the forum that have allowed the more creative, maybe unshackled too, amongst us to indulge in our *crack* theories. Understand that as *crack* as they are, Jim likes reading them it seems.  I'm sure it's entertaining to him seeing either how close we come or how far off we are to what he has planned.

[raidem]

This is an excerpt of when Harry in Cold Days says "Screw Winter Law" and loses all access to the mantle as a result.  Take note that Mab gave Harry back access to the mantle after Thomas, Butter, Murphy, Molly touched and helped Harry up but before he said "Maybe we won't screw Winter Law." I underlined two of the potentially important people where there may exist a coincidence in this situation.  Also, it seems either via the mantle or within the room, Mab has Harry under surveillance.

(click to show/hide)

“Well,” I said, starting toward Hook. “I never signed on to that treaty. So screw Winter Law—”

And abruptly, as if someone had just slammed a row of staples into my skin, the mantle of the Winter Knight vanished completely. Pain soared back into my body, inflamed tissue crying out, my bruises throbbing, the edemas beneath my skin pounding with a horrible tightness. Fatigue hit me like a truck. The sensations were so intense, the only way I could tell that I had fallen to the floor was by looking.
And my body abruptly went numb and useless from my stomach down.

That scared the hell out of me and confirmed one of my worst fears. When I’d consented to serve Mab, my back had been broken, my spine damaged. Taking up the mantle had covered what would probably have been a crippling and long-term injury. But without it, my body was only mortal. Better than most at recovering over time, but still human. Without the mantle, I wouldn’t have legs, bladder or bowel control, or, most important, independence.

I was on the ground like that for a subjective week, but it could have been only a few seconds before Thomas reached my side, with Murphy, Butters, and Molly right behind him. I knew they were there because I could see them, but their voices swam down to me from what seemed like a great distance among the cacophony of raking sensations scouring my nervous system. They lifted me to a sitting position—and then abruptly the pain was gone, and my legs started moving again, jerking in a single, gentle spasm. The mantle had been restored. “Okay,” I said in a ragged voice. “Uh. Maybe we won’t screw Winter Law.”

[Talby16]

This is an excerpt of when Harry in Cold Days says "Screw Winter Law" and loses all access to the mantle as a result.  Take note that Mab gave Harry back access to the mantle after Thomas, Butter, Murphy, Molly touched and helped Harry up but before he said "Maybe we won't screw Winter Law." I underlined two of the potentially important people where there may exist a coincidence in this situation.  Also, it seems either via the mantle or within the room, Mab has Harry under surveillance.

I don't know if Mab necessarily has Harry under surveillance. Consequence of breaking Winter Law could be inherent in the Mantle. Kind of like in the short story Cold Case:

(click to show/hide)

when Molly was told by Mab to "turn her attention to the outer gates" and the knowledge popped into her head. I believe it also happened when she turned her attention to what the tribute was and the answer came to her

I think some things are just inherent to the Mantle.

[raidem]

You are right. I just wanted to include that it occurred in the presence of Murphy.

Harry compares Murphy to a Valkyrie.

Murphy didn't look like a monster-hunting Valkyrie. Murphy looked like someone's kid sister. She was five nothing, a hundred and nothing, and was built like an athlete, all springy muscle. Her blond hair hung down over her blue eyes, and was cut close in back.

[wardenferry419]

Gard commented that she had the hair color for it.

[raidem]

Yeah, right now it's much less complicated for Murphy to turn out to be a Valkyrie than for her to ascend to be Mab in the past.  I assume she could still assume Mab in the future or alternate reality, but there'd have to be a special case where either Molly gets out of the mantle, is prevented from obtaining Queen mantle, or she jumps to Mother Winter after both Mother and Mab dies.

There is a WOJ about Mother Winter and if she didn't have warts and all, that that would be bad.

[wardenferry419]

Yeah, Molly does have first dibs at being Mab.

[raidem]

This is an excellent write up on the Fae by Serack.  If Mab ends up Murphy, or vice versa it is germane to this thread.  And if not, it will need to be preserved in the transfer and this thread will be a priority for me to transfer all of it over.

Reference: Fae reproduction, life cycle and social structure
http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,48514.0.html

[wardenferry419]

I remember that from last year. Definitely a keeper.

[raidem]

Ok, I have a problem with this WOJ. Many theories are based off the belief that Jim agreed with what the questioner posed, namely that the "Sidhe and Mab came from origins like Toot Toot" or more particularly that "Mab came from origins like Toot Toot."  The issue with that is Jim never said this in this WOJ, he never exactly said that in the WOJ that is similar to this.  We only assume Jim agreed with the Mab was Toot Toot size, which we know is contradicted both by Mab was human once, and that the original Mab participated in an event along with other Queens to establish their base of power using the Stone Table.  It is our faulty assumption that assumed Mab was ever Toot Toot size.

Other pertinent WOJ's that tie into argument.
Sidhe having Toot Toot like origins in general is correct.

Again, Toot gets big from influence in the world similar to the sidhe. Jim mentions Mab wasn't always as big as she is now. (I distinctly remember a smiley face here for some reason) Anyways, this is where people jump to the conclusion that Mab was a tiny fairie as Shakespeare once described. It's a faulty assumption.  We now have WOJ- that says "Shakespeare didn't know what he was talking about." This was a general statement by Jim so not specific to any one thing but I think we can safely assume Shakespeare didn't accurately depict the nature of Faerie.

[raidem]

Read this, I included it above.
Again, Toot gets big from influence in the world similar to the sidhe. Jim mentions Mab wasn't always as big as she is now. (I distinctly remember a smiley face here for some reason) Anyways, this is where people jump to the conclusion that Mab was a tiny fairie as Shakespeare once described. It's a faulty assumption.  We now have WOJ- that says "Shakespeare didn't know what he was talking about." This was a general statement by Jim so not specific to any one thing but I think we can safely assume Shakespeare didn't accurately depict the nature of Faerie.
Quote
Q:  How big will Toot get?
A:  Depends on how much influence he has in the world.  That’s how the sidhe gain their size and power.  Mab wasn’t always as big as she is now.

I have more to say regarding your reply.  I'll add it here...
Quote
The Queens seem to be seperate from the rest of the Fae. Even the Erlking seems more closely related to other Fae than the Queens
There is one WOJ that pertains to this. Let me get it. It has humans being the origin of most of the Fae.
Quote
WOJ: Ok, do they automatically become Fae, do they lose their soul? The answer to that question is “sort of”. Um, it’s automatic, but not necessarily instant. Mab herself was human once, and she eventually became the, uh, the fun-loving Mab that we all know. So, a lot of it has to do with who you are when you go into it, because most of the Fae were human once. A lot were born as half-bloods and decided to become Fae and sort of automatically got their mantle for free, but all the other fae who were there, including the Erl and several others, who were at one point humans….So, a lot of this is going to depend on who they  might end up being, a lot of it depends on who they are going into it and what kind of will they have to maintain who they are. That’s going to be a big deal. I’m really looking forward to writing the next books so I can see what happens with Molly, ‘cause I’m really not sure yet, I have a vague idea of what’s gonna happen, because basically she just got handed the largest, unruliest crowd of little brothers and sisters to deal with ever.

[raidem]

You are referring to this WOJ somewhat.

Yes, if Mab=Murphy true then Jim may be giving a clue to us, with ironic humor, that Mab's identity was a short/small one, aka Tiny. Some then didn't get the 'clue' and believed he meant Mab was Toot Toot like, I took it as a reference to Murphy instead. I like your explanation of how Murphy would grow in size. I view it, in combination with your explanation, as the Queen mantle altering Murphy's genetics, biology, to make her in fact the Mab archetype.  It's sort of how Summer Lady mantle morphs Lily into looking like Aurora.

So, it could also explain why Maeve and Sarissa wouldn't look like Murphy necessarily. Murphy would have already been Mab 750+ years for the mantle to shape her genetics, biology. So her kids would look very close to an archetype of a Faerie Princess with the caveat that they had a mortal father.  Therefore, her kids (Sarissa and Maeve) when they chose and while wielding a mantle wouldn't change so much in appearance as they had very strong exposure to Fae genetics.

Crap, I have to move this over to Mab/Ironies. Move discussion over there please.

[wardenferry419]

How does Murphy go over a thousand years into the past?  How does she find herself in a situation where she has enough Fae connection to assume a Queen Mantle? How does she skip over being Lady or does she? Does this tie into the twitter comment about him writing "Murphy's funeral?" These are questions that would need answers to proceed from point A which is Murphy's present situation to point B which is the main point of your theory. 
                   Murphy _____________________________>
                  B    _____________________________________>
                      /     Mab                                                         \
                    A  ---------------------------------------------------------------
                         <  Murphy
                  I sort of temporal loop in which Mab and Murphy intertwine due to interactions.