Mab/Murphy Ironies

[raidem]

We already had a form of Time Travel at least according to one of the characters in the series, Murphy, and it resulted in her demotion.

She wiped at her mouth and looked at her watch. She tucked the last of her sandwich between her lips, and then started resetting the watch while she chewed.
“Gone almost exactly twenty-four hours. So we did some kind of time travel?” she asked.
“Oh, God no,” I said. “That’s on the list of Things One Does Not Do. It’s one of the seven Laws of Magic.”
“Maybe,” she said. “But however it happened, a whole day just went poof.
That’s time travel.”
“People are doing that kind of time travel all the time,” I said. “We just pulled into the passing lane for a while.”
She finished setting the watch and grimaced. “All the same.”
I frowned at her. “You okay?”
She looked up at the children and their mother. “I’m going to have one hell of a time explaining where I’ve been for the past twenty-four hours. It isn’t as though I can tell my boss that I went time traveling.”
“Yeah, he’d never buy it. Tell him you invaded Faerieland to rescue a young woman from a monster-infested castle.”
“Of course,” she said. “Why didn’t I think of that?”
I grunted. “Is it going to make trouble for you?”
She frowned for a moment and then said, “Intradepartmental discipline, probably.

So, it's possible that Team Harry (time travelers) enter the mortal world during those 24 hours in which Harry's team were off in the NeverNever.
Again, it would allow Murphy to be involved in time traveling, another detail to support TTMurphy theories.

[raidem]

Moved from Spammed Thread.
maybe it could be all the missing clues I need for my Mab=Murphy theory.

If I don't have them, nobody does lol.

lol.  I cleared another hurdle today. At least on Reddit I did. I had assumed on this website I didn't need to argue it.

Someone argued that no Murphy couldn't be Mab because they don't look like each other.  Or that TTHarry would have to change how TTMurphy looks thousand+ years ago.
I responded that no, the Queen Mantles (including Lady's) would/could morph a person's appearance into the Mab personified 'look'.

[4:37 PM] raidem: I had this question, and some of my theories depend on it.  I assumed Mab's mantle morph's her original appearance to that of Mab's mask over a period of time.  We know from Bob that Molly over time will be similar in behavior to Maeve as the mantle tends to bend the individual in that given direction.  Is there a similar bend in one's physical appearance over time too?
[4:46 PM] raidem: Lily's hair changed upon becoming Summer Lady "Her hair had been pulled back into a ponytail. And it had turned snow white." in SK 
[4:50 PM] raidem: And if I hadn’t known better, if I hadn’t known Lily’s features well enough to be sure it was her, I would have sworn that I was looking at Aurora, the Summer Lady I’d murdered at the stone table. [CD]

So, Murphy would be Winter Lady, for how long I don't know (WOJ our Mab as a Winter Lady chose Lea to be her handmaiden).  Her appearance would have to already begun to shift.  And, then some sudden set of events that aligned with the last time things got awful in the wizarding world, it ended with at least both Mab and Titania dying, who else we don't know, which allowed our Mab, our Titania to assume the mantle of Queen roughly around the time of the Battle of Hastings.  Around that time, Mab and Titania stop speaking.  Give us 1000+ years and I don't think we can assume we would be able to identify that Murphy that had been Mab for 1000+ years is our Murphy.  They'd look totally different.  So, that is one thing my theory counts on, a mask for Queen Mab that camouflages her identity, which will stun us when it is revealed.

[raidem]

The other hurdle that I've addressed on Reddit regards the Lady's self defense against either sex or pregnancy.  Many people want to assume that the Lady mantle only can go to a true virgin.
I argued that Molly may have had sex between when she hadn't gone the whole way (said so in one book) to the time she took up the mantle.  (ambiguous)
I argued that Sarissa surely in her 150+ years had has sex.  Others argued that she didn't have sex in fear that they'd be pawns used against her, Mab, etc.
I got tired of arguments so I brought up Lily, who admitted to being raped by Slate.  Who Maeve admitted to allowing Slate to take. There is extremely high evidence that Lily had sex, and that in fact she did become the Summer Lady, so in fact there is no "Virgin" requirement imposed to be a Lady.  Only one that is imposed on you while Lady.

The cleared hurdle I take from this is that, yes Murphy is eligible for the Lady mantle if prepared even though she has had sex, though no children.

[peregrine]

That assumes that the same rules apply for the Winter and Summer ladies.  It's possible that the Summer Lady need not be a virgin.  She almost certainly doesn't have the same conflicting impulses of wanting to but being unable to, mate.

That said, while it makes some kind of thematic sense, there's nothing whatsoever in the books to strongly argue for it, it's never really come up.

[wardenferry419]

I would believe that Summer Ladies are more coquette and demure with their attractions then Winter Ladies; each manner would be appealing to masculine mentality.

[raidem]

“I didn’t want the world. I didn’t want vast riches, or fame, or power. I wanted a husband. Children. Love. A home that we made together. And that can never happen now.” The tears fell, and as the heat, the fury, came back into her voice, the fire gathered around her again. “Because of you. Because you killed Aurora. Because you made me into this. You raise your hand against my champion, my friend, and when you are defeated you dare tell me what I must and must not do?”

I think Lily has similar issues regarding mating and having children. She even says so.
If she could have a guy, a kid, love on the side it, she wouldn't be complaining about it in Cold Days.  So, even she in her position as Summer Lady has the restriction of imposed virginity while wearing the mantle.

[raidem]

Near the end, Mab is in full judge mode, who is she judging?

-EG-The Archive 2 points 12 hours ago
Nic. And Harry to some degree.

Raedem2 1 point a minute ago
Maybe herself too. (If I go with my theory Mab=Murphy, then she is like how dare my younger self lose to Nic in a sword fight, end up breaking the Sword of Faith, and be outmaneuvered by Nic in manipulating ME) I'm in judge mode right now because my emotions are in a roil over these same events that happen now, but also for me 1000+ years ago as Murphy. And, I'm stung, but like...Justice is finally served, NIC.

...Now go back to Murphy's bedside you dupe and make out with her again, because I liked it.
Or, maybe she didn't.  How dare you start falling in love with me. You will never free me from this mantle, Never.

[Talby16]

@raidem, I'm sure you have already considered this and posted about this somewhere else so forgive me, but how do you reconcile this WOJ with your Mab/Murphy theory?

2014 AMA
Can we get a break down of the biological relationships between the various Fae Queens we have seen on screen? Of particular interest - Maeve and Sarissa, were they actually Mab's kids (biological sense)? If so, who was Mab's baby daddy?

Mab and Titania are actual twin sisters.
Maeve and Sarissa were twin sisters, from Mab. Their father was an Austrian composer and musician who died young.

[raidem]

Can we get a break down of the biological relationships between the various Fae Queens we have seen on screen? Of particular interest - Maeve and Sarissa, were they actually Mab's kids (biological sense)? If so, who was Mab's baby daddy?
Mab and Titania are actual twin sisters.
Maeve and Sarissa were twin sisters, from Mab. Their father was an Austrian composer and musician who died young.

I will break down the WOJ into two parts, from least complicated to most complicated with respect to my theory that Mab=Murphy, and then attempt to explain them.

Maeve and Sarissa were twin sisters, from Mab. Their father was an Austrian composer and musician who died young.

Note (Mab=Murphy) This requires Murphy to parent a set of twins with an Austrian composer and musician. She names them Maeve and Sarissa. She knows that Nemesis will likely get to Maeve, given her history on Demonreach in the future, her past, and for whatever reason (time travel paradox) still names them those same very names. She proceeds with plans to prevent this from occurring and despite all she does, it still happens.
 Or, She knows her history, but the point in which she travels into the past she enters a slightly different alternate reality so she is uncertain as to exactly what will happen again.

Mab and Titania are actual twin sisters.

This one is the most problematic.  I can explain it away a few different ways.
1) Biologically, over time, Mab and Titania become actual twin sisters.  See the way the Lady mantle morph's Lily into looking like Aurora.  Give it a few more decades, and they probably would look exactly alike.
2) Mab and Titania mantles are 'actual' twin sisters.
3) Murphy has a twin sister that accompanies her into the past to ascend the Queen mantles around the same time.
4) Murphy's evil/good twin, -Murphy, from an alternate reality travels into the past to ascend the Queen mantles around the same time. (she fits the definition of identical twin.) *Harry makes a joke about it in one of the books about Murphy having an evil twin. *We will likely see another Murphy in Mirror Mirror.

There is also this WOJ, that I have to navigate around.

I was wondering if Mab was the first Winter Queen?
No.  Mab was not the first Mab.  Mab was originally Winter Lady, and Lea was her Jenny Greenteeth.  She was her sidekick and handmaiden.  And so when Mab got promoted Lea did too.  So she got to be much more powerful and awesome.  But that was a while back.  When that happened.  And the same thing with Titania.  The Winter Queens actually died.  The last time things got awful in the wizard world.  So things are about to get awful in the wizard world again and they're a bit nervous.  They're a bit nervous about Dresden.  Well, Titania is very nervous about Dresden.  Mab is keeping her enemies close.

(*Mab=Murphy) This requires Murphy to be a Winter Lady, choose Lea to be her handmaiden. It seems "same thing" with Titania suggests our Titania (perhaps Murphy's twin) was Summer Lady.  Both ascended in an event that took out the Mab and Titania of the time.  And somehow both our Mab and Titania are skittish around Harry.  With Mab, it's more about considering him an enemy.  So, did Harry or something like Harry orchestrate, or directly take out, the prior Queens?  They really have a hyperfocus on Harry personally, even before it seems Storm Front.  It might have to do with what he was born to be.

[Talby16]

Thanks for the reply. I was certain you would have an explanation for that particular WoJ. As you say, the Maeve/Sarissa part is easy to explain. If Murphy goes back in time and becomes Mab she will have plenty of time to have twins. Surprisingly, for me, I have an easier time accepting explanation number 4 for the Mab/Titania twin issue than the other ones, even though that is on the surface the most complex/unlikely. Number 1 would be a cop out in my opinion. For number 2, I do not think familial relationships are inherent to the mantles. I also have trouble believing that we have had no hint of a twin sister for Murphy through 15 books. That leaves number 4, however unlikely it appears on the surface.

I've often wondered about the purpose of the Mirror Mirror books. Presumably, it will be set almost entirely in the alternate reality. If that is the case, what will Harry gain from it to further his progression/journey. If he gains nothing and all his actions/consequences are contained in the alterante reality, then MM is nothing but a placeholder book. A fun look at the alternate fates of the characters I'm sure, but nothing that will help Harry win/survive in the BAT. I'm guessing he at least comes away from MM with some new insight or knowledge about the Outsiders and/or Black Council that he can apply in his reality. However, it is fun to speculate about the characters he will encounter and the potential for crossover.

For example, what if the MM Murphy decides to transfer out of Special Investigations. She is never exposed to the horror of the spooky world (but knows it still exists) and maybe ends up in a happier headspace. Her sense of duty rear its head when our Harry comes calling and she will accompany him and our Murphy back to the past where her different circumstances make her ideal to join Summer. Our Murphy, having been through the meat grinder, is more suited to join Winter and do what must be done.

Just one possibility, but if your theory is true, I like the opportunities explanation number 4 opens up.

[wardenferry419]

I see Mirror Mirror as an opportunity for Harry to get a broader understanding of the role he has played in people's lives, possible secret knowledge that is relevant to his world, and maybe an ace-in-the-hole object of power. Wizards hoard their secrets like dragons hoard their gold.

[Talby16]

I see Mirror Mirror as an opportunity for Harry to get a broader understanding of the role he has played in people's lives, possible secret knowledge that is relevant to his world, and maybe an ace-in-the-hole object of power. Wizards hoard their secrets like dragons hoard their gold.

I'v always liked the idea of knowledge being power in the Dresden Universe. It brings to mind a WoJ that deals with the White Council members holding back what they can really do in case it ever came to a fight and another one that deals with wizards not telling Harry certain things or correcting his misunderstandings of magic because some things should be learned and being leery of giving Harry that "power."

[raidem]

There is more to the following story than meets the eye with my theory.  See the underlined.
Mab tells Harry Fox and Scorpion Story Harry's Office

Mab tilted her dark glasses down, cat eyes on mine. "Wizard. Do you know the story of the Fox and Scorpion?"
I shook my head, looking away.
"Fox and Scorpion came to a brook," Mab murmured, her voice low, sweet. "Wide was the water. Scorpion asked Fox for a ride on his back. Fox said, 'Scorpion, will you not sting me?' Scorpion said, 'If I did, it would mean the death of us both.' Fox agreed, and Scorpion climbed onto his back. Fox swam, but halfway over, Scorpion struck with his deadly sting. Fox gasped, 'Fool, you have doomed us both. Why?' 'I am a scorpion,' said Scorpion. 'It is my nature.' "
"That's the story?" I said. "Don't quit your day job."
Mab laughed, velvet ice, and it sent another shiver through me. "You will accept this case, wizard. It is what you are. It is your nature."

In Storm Front, Murphy gets stabbed by a scorpion in the arm, blames Harry for it.
Harry, handcuffed to Murphy, has to battle the scorpion while keeping both safe.

The irony would be Mab/Murphy is reminding Harry about her time with Harry and the scorpion in Storm Front.  And, she seeks symmetry in stabbing Harry in the hand, since she was stabbed in the arm by the scorpion, and it's in her nature. Mab, in Harry's office, talk about a scorpion in "the Fox and the Scorpion" has parallels with a Murphy, in Harry's office, that talk about and fight against a scorpion.

[wardenferry419]

Mab/Murphy holds a grudge for thousands of years for something that Harry didn't do in the first place, sounds like Murphy.

[raidem]

Serack's Origin of the High Sidhe
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,41109.0.html

Serack's IdHarry
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,40988.0.html

Fae reproduction, life cycle and social structure
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,48514.0.html

Foxed's Crazy Theory Emporium
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,43724.msg2113249.html#msg2113249
I remember when Foxed was creating some of his ideas, particularly around time travel, mirror mirror, and Harry's IdHarry and such.  There was some cross-pollination of ideas.  He actually wrote his ideas down in a nice format.  So, you can find them in above link.


I'll be reviewing the Reference Collection the next few days and placing links here of things that stand out to me.