The curse on MacFinn

[wardenferry419]

I wasn't refering to any religion. I was refering to frequently use of speeches instead of letting the action suggest itself.

[jonas]

I wasn't refering to any religion. I was refering to frequently use of speeches instead of letting the action suggest itself.

Oh, well then Hell yes, it was preachy lol... but to be fair Tolkein was Breezy and longwinded by that same regard(hated reading endless landscape descriptions I always got lost in anyway)

[wardenferry419]

I was annoyed by the elf songs.

[wardenferry419]

Landscape descriptions were a close second. There is world building and then there is Tolkien world building.

[Mr. Death]

Landscape descriptions were a close second. There is world building and then there is Tolkien world building.

Many authors come up with a story, then create a world in which that story can take place.

Tolkien came up with languages, then created a world for them to live in, and then he decided to write down stories about that world.

[wardenferry419]

Has anybody ever figured out what the Macfinn family did in the first place to tick off St. Patrick?

[Rasins]

No, there is nothing in the books to suggest what it was.

[wardenferry419]

I am guessing something of a predatory or bestial nature; where the punishment fits the crime.

[Rasins]

I am guessing something of a predatory or bestial nature; where the punishment fits the crime.

Again, I'm not so sure it was a punishment.  I know that's what it's been called, but that may not have been what it was.

If St. Patrick and MacFinn's ancestor knew that they were going to need a beasty like the Loup-Garu during the last battles, then it would have been a sacrifice, not a punishment.

[Kindler]

I am guessing something of a predatory or bestial nature; where the punishment fits the crime.

It was definitely because MacFinn's ancestors harbored snakes.

Joking aside, I don't think that there was an atrocity or a great "crime" in the sense that we're thinking. It doesn't make an awful lot of sense to curse someone by turning them into a nearly unstoppable killing machine for three nights a month. Like, you wouldn't punish Ted Bundy by giving him body armor and a belt-fed machine gun with easy access to an orphanage, you know? Saint Patrick gave him extraordinary, uncontrollable power, and basically unleashed him on the world. If he was an awful person who needed to be punished for, say, murdering a village-ful of women and children, you wouldn't turn him into a new apex predator; you'd turn him into prey.

I think that the curse was done because the alternative was worse. And the whole "and your line will never die out" was negotiated by MacFinn as payment for services rendered. There must have been major badness going on in Ireland at the time. The Romans pulled out of Britain in the early fifth century, and there was quite a bit of chaos in the region; chaos brings supernatural predators (see my thoughts on Hastings, Starborn, and the deaths of the Winter and Summer Ladies). I think there was something going on with the Tuatha, Firbolgs, and Fomor.

[Rasins]

It was definitely because MacFinn's ancestors harbored snakes.

Joking aside, I don't think that there was an atrocity or a great "crime" in the sense that we're thinking. It doesn't make an awful lot of sense to curse someone by turning them into a nearly unstoppable killing machine for three nights a month. Like, you wouldn't punish Ted Bundy by giving him body armor and a belt-fed machine gun with easy access to an orphanage, you know? Saint Patrick gave him extraordinary, uncontrollable power, and basically unleashed him on the world. If he was an awful person who needed to be punished for, say, murdering a village-ful of women and children, you wouldn't turn him into a new apex predator; you'd turn him into prey.

I think that the curse was done because the alternative was worse. And the whole "and your line will never die out" was negotiated by MacFinn as payment for services rendered. There must have been major badness going on in Ireland at the time. The Romans pulled out of Britain in the early fifth century, and there was quite a bit of chaos in the region; chaos brings supernatural predators (see my thoughts on Hastings, Starborn, and the deaths of the Winter and Summer Ladies). I think there was something going on with the Tuatha, Firbolgs, and Fomor.

Oh, I like this.

It fits in with Bob's description of why someone would make a deal with a demon for something like a Wolf-belt.

[jonas]

Saint Patrick gave him extraordinary, uncontrollable power, and basically unleashed him on the world.

When looking at the volume of this particular cup I prefer to see the other 30ish days they then prevent the loup from rampaging. The belts... the belts are basically connections to spirits of rage, the loup is a spirit of rage, sans the curse I think it would have been easy for say... Denton? to mirror the rage well enough to incidently call the loups spirit instead of any random spirit of rage. Think that was part of pointing Dresden at him like a gun. But while Dresden successively demolishes the old, it's Murphy deciding for the new order of the day....(sorry, random thought on it)

[Paviel]

I think that the curse was done because the alternative was worse. And the whole "and your line will never die out" was negotiated by MacFinn as payment for services rendered. There must have been major badness going on in Ireland at the time.

Having at least one descendant turn into a killing machine every month for all eternity seems like overkill if all you want to do is quell some temporary "major badness going on in Ireland." Maybe it didn't seem so temporary to MacFinn or St. Patrick, but I'm rather inclined to believe that a higher power was playing a longer game than that.

Note also that despite the constant existence of a MacFinn loup-garou for about twenty thousand full moons, massacres attributed to a MacFinn loup-garou have been surprisingly rare. We know that Harley knew how to create a magic circle to contain himself, and that's why he himself didn't go on any rampages prior to Fool Moon.

Of course, it's possible that the rest of the MacFinns knew about untamed lands where they could go nuts without hurting anybody, but such areas have become increasingly rare over the centuries as human civilization has expanded. It seems pretty likely, therefore, that all of the MacFinns knew about the magic circle as well.

[Kindler]

Having at least one descendant turn into a killing machine every month for all eternity seems like overkill if all you want to do is quell some temporary "major badness going on in Ireland." Maybe it didn't seem so temporary to MacFinn or St. Patrick, but I'm rather inclined to believe that a higher power was playing a longer game than that.

Note also that despite the constant existence of a MacFinn loup-garou for about twenty thousand full moons, massacres attributed to a MacFinn loup-garou have been surprisingly rare. We know that Harley knew how to create a magic circle to contain himself, and that's why he himself didn't go on any rampages prior to Fool Moon.

Of course, it's possible that the rest of the MacFinns knew about untamed lands where they could go nuts without hurting anybody, but such areas have become increasingly rare over the centuries as human civilization has expanded. It seems pretty likely, therefore, that all of the MacFinns knew about the magic circle as well.

The circle might've been passed down along with the curse, a kind of family heirloom. I think it would have to be, considering that MacFinn didn't have any knowledge of how to repair it himself, and contacted Kim Delaney of all people—and inexperienced minor talent who had to go to Harry to find out what the circle actually did—to fix it for him. If it was something he built himself or had made, I think he would've had a Wizard or other more experienced talent he could call up to fix it.

Might even be that the circle was originally made when the curse was laid down.

You're right in that it seems like overkill for a temporary problem. I think it's likely that it served more than one purpose.

[Rasins]

It could also be that MacFinns father (whomever held the curse before him) had the circle built a LONG time ago and whomever helped him was no longer available?