Wizard strength level

[Jearend]

Ok so since pretty much book one Harry has been saying that 'magical muscle' wise his pretty much at the top of the food chain. Is there a cap on how powerful a mortal wizard can be, if so how does that compare to other (non deitic) beings, e.g Eldest Gruff, and does there come a point where ones power forces one to transcend ones mortality/humanity?

[jonas]

Only comment I can make on this is, the Woj on scions and if they ever twig to the fact they have a choice includes wizards. Only most all stay 'wizard', never realizing they have a choice at all. Others... like crazed Warlocks do choose to be something, but that alone doesn't just spontaneously make one stronger...
 The Sidhe were a likely offshoot that choose more.

[peregrine]

I want to say that Jim has said that a suitably powerful enough wizard could rewrite reality.  So there's that.

[Jearend]

Riiiigght! I forgot about that,thanks. I guess that means no cap. That helps a lot.

[exartiem]

It's not just raw power, it's also skill.  Even if there is an upper limit on total energy one can channel, one can always learn better control of it to do more with it, as evidenced by Ivy at the aquarium

Imagine if Andre the Giant had the speed, skill and agility of Bruce Lee.

[jonas]

It's not just raw power, it's also skill.  Even if there is an upper limit on total energy one can channel, one can always learn better control of it to do more with it, as evidenced by Ivy at the aquarium

Imagine if Andre the Giant had the speed, skill and agility of Bruce Lee.

That's Harry in another 150 yrs.

[khadgar4606]

Imagine if Andre the Giant had the speed, skill and agility of Bruce Lee.

that would be scary.

[Mira]

It's not just raw power, it's also skill.  Even if there is an upper limit on total energy one can channel, one can always learn better control of it to do more with it, as evidenced by Ivy at the aquarium

Imagine if Andre the Giant had the speed, skill and agility of Bruce Lee.

  That would be sportsmans-like...

[Maz]

Comment of the Day

[Griffyn612]

I'm not buying that a wizard can reach deity-level power without being a deity.  Not if they want to remain human.

Bonus stats could get them there while retaining their humanity, like mantles and items, but then just possessing that much raw Power on their own?  Seems unlikely, at least to me.

[Mr. Death]

I imagine there's an upper limit to how much power a wizard can generate on his own. The upper limit is probably very variable, so Harry probably has a higher upper limit than Molly would have, and it certainly goes up with age, so Harry at 150 can generate a lot more personal power than Harry as he is now.

I think there's probably no upper limit, however, to how much power they can use -- that power just has to come from somewhere else, like leylines, sacrifices, deals and so on. I think you get into reality warping with people who have made such deals or have otherwise found some way to supplement their own power.

[Griffyn612]

I think there's probably no upper limit, however, to how much power they can use -- that power just has to come from somewhere else, like leylines, sacrifices, deals and so on. I think you get into reality warping with people who have made such deals or have otherwise found some way to supplement their own power.

You don't think there's a throughput limit for mortals?  Some threshold that can't be exceeded without destroying the mortal?

[Mr. Death]

You don't think there's a throughput limit for mortals?  Some threshold that can't be exceeded without destroying the mortal?

Well, yes and no. There's certainly a limit to what a person can handle all at once. But we've seen through thaumaturgy that a wizard taking his time and preparing carefully can well exceed those limits. This is probably also something that scales with a wizard's age, personal power and experience.

Let's for the sake of argument say that a spell's energy can be measured in Thaums as a unit.

An apprentice might be able to throughput only 1 or 2 thaums at a time, and might take a few minutes to do each. While any spell is theoretically doable, something that's 100 thaums would end up being an arduous marathon task, effectively putting it out of his normal reach.

Someone like Harry, a full wizard with some experience, might be able to do 5 thaums/minute, making that 100-thaum spell difficult, but but a 20 minute task.

Say someone on Ebenezer can do 20 every 30 seconds, putting the 100-thaum spell in at only 2 minutes 30 seconds. At this point, he'd be able to do a 1,000-thaum spell with the time and effort it takes Harry to do the 100-thaum spell.

And so on.

[Griffyn612]

Well, yes and no. There's certainly a limit to what a person can handle all at once. But we've seen through thaumaturgy that a wizard taking his time and preparing carefully can well exceed those limits. This is probably also something that scales with a wizard's age, personal power and experience.

Let's for the sake of argument say that a spell's energy can be measured in Thaums as a unit.

An apprentice might be able to throughput only 1 or 2 thaums at a time, and might take a few minutes to do each. While any spell is theoretically doable, something that's 100 thaums would end up being an arduous marathon task, effectively putting it out of his normal reach.

Someone like Harry, a full wizard with some experience, might be able to do 5 thaums/minute, making that 100-thaum spell difficult, but but a 20 minute task.

Say someone on Ebenezer can do 20 every 30 seconds, putting the 100-thaum spell in at only 2 minutes 30 seconds. At this point, he'd be able to do a 1,000-thaum spell with the time and effort it takes Harry to do the 100-thaum spell.

And so on.

I agree that experience expands capacity, but even that has to have a limit.  And we're talking about channeling external power versus possessing that power internally.  I'm sure they can expand the tank, but not to near-deity levels, which is what's being asked.  There's got to be a limit before mortality is exceeded.

[~Shadow~]

2009 Lexington signing:
Q:  What are the upper levels of magic?
A:  There are none, if the person has enough juice.  If someone was strong enough, they could completely rewrite reality.