Author Topic: "Conjure by it at your own risk."  (Read 13671 times)

Offline Con

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2017, 07:06:53 AM »
I love WOJ's they're so tantilising and I would even speculate they're more reliable than Dresden's thoughts as they come straight from the creator. Take Demonreach for example. Harry was wrong about that. I even count the RPG booklets towards WOJ's, they give great background info on the characters as well as give you a rough comparison of powers and abilities. Even though the Maths does my head in.

Offline jonas

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2017, 07:15:28 AM »
I love WOJ's they're so tantilising and I would even speculate they're more reliable than Dresden's thoughts as they come straight from the creator. Take Demonreach for example. Harry was wrong about that. I even count the RPG booklets towards WOJ's, they give great background info on the characters as well as give you a rough comparison of powers and abilities. Even though the Maths does my head in.
Many woj's slip in info unrelated to the question, sometimes for something we don't have the middle piece to connect it with, relying on intuition to see its relevance. Even has woj about his books being this way lol.
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Offline wardenferry419

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2017, 09:20:13 AM »
It also might be as simple as the danger of mentioning him. If you aggressively say you’re looking for him, there are a whole lot of people that will jump up to slap you around and if you mention you know him personally, you’re painting a huge target on your back. I also like the idea that eventually we’ll see someone claiming to be him because they haven’t heard he’s back from the dead, so someone will show up calling themselves Harry Dresden...to intimidate Dresden.
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Offline Froklsnt

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2017, 12:46:13 PM »
I'm not sure there would be specific consequences for summoning Dresden, other than a very pissed off Harry Dresden.  What I do think we've got here though is a Chekov's Gun, so I think the real question should be who's the fool who's will pull that trigger?  I've seen the idea on here before that it will be Time-Traveling Harry in Mirror Mirror. That's fun, how about some others?  Here, I'll start:  Mavra. She's probably the strongest black practitioner that we've met who's still "alive," besides Cowl.

Offline Kindler

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2017, 01:24:00 PM »
It does seem odd to me that he would use the word "conjure" specifically, which, to me, indicates that Harry could be summoned in some fashion (assuming the D&D school of conjuration magic terminology applies).

I don't think you can conjure mortals.

Harry and Bob mention with some frequency that mortal concepts of names aren't all that reliable, because we're constantly redefining ourselves. I could take it to mean that either A) a name written in a book, rather than from someone's own lips, isn't particularly useful for magic, and might have disastrous consequences if you tried to use it, or B) Harry's mortal mutability has decreased enough that his name is effective.

Offline raidem

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2017, 01:34:51 PM »
Quote
  I think it is a hint at how powerful Harry will ultimately become..   Another hint was in Cold Days, the image Harry showed of himself in his head when he fought Sharkface on Demonreach..  He was not afraid to say who he was loudly and clearly, he was quite terrifying...
Well, by the time Harry gets to the pinacle of his story, and how Jim handles power creep, the story will read "The End." 

So, He will be a major badass indeed.
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
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Offline Cozarkian

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2017, 03:26:31 PM »
I don't think we will see that, but it would have been awesome  :)

Me too, I tend to seek simple explanations.

I'm with simple, too. Harry is a human that actually learns to exercises free will. By the end of the books, what Ferrovax does to him at the party with just a part of Harry's name Ferro won't be able to do with all of Harry's name, because Harry's free will will just say no.

Thus, conjuring by Harry's name won't get you power over him, it will just make him aware of your existence and possibly displeased.

Offline Kindler

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2017, 03:36:37 PM »
I'm with simple, too. Harry is a human that actually learns to exercises free will. By the end of the books, what Ferrovax does to him at the party with just a part of Harry's name Ferro won't be able to do with all of Harry's name, because Harry's free will will just say no.

Thus, conjuring by Harry's name won't get you power over him, it will just make him aware of your existence and possibly displeased.

That explanation makes more sense to me when you put it that way. The focus on the power of free will over the last few books especially may be hinting that Harry's powerup is just an expression of what he's already capable. Harry certainly has an awful lot of monologues about how he's mostly just naturally defiant and stubborn for their own sake.

It would fit well with some others' ideas that this book chronicles the Rise of Mortals, and that humanity will itself take over for Winter at the Outer Gates eventually.

Offline jonas

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2017, 07:09:58 PM »
That explanation makes more sense to me when you put it that way. The focus on the power of free will over the last few books especially may be hinting that Harry's powerup is just an expression of what he's already capable. Harry certainly has an awful lot of monologues about how he's mostly just naturally defiant and stubborn for their own sake.

It would fit well with some others' ideas that this book chronicles the Rise of Mortals, and that humanity will itself take over for Winter at the Outer Gates eventually.
The thing is, most forms of power simply give one a wider array of choices,(including the ability to excersice those choices upon another of course) Harry, remaining somewhat mortal(for now?) shows he's simply becoming MORE of himself. Defining who he is by what he does, aided and abetted by his power ups.  He's expressing his own nature as defined by his Will.
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Offline sonwarrior

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2017, 02:26:39 AM »
Quote
I'm with simple, too. Harry is a human that actually learns to exercises free will. By the end of the books, what Ferrovax does to him at the party with just a part of Harry's name Ferro won't be able to do with all of Harry's name, because Harry's free will will just say no.

Thus, conjuring by Harry's name won't get you power over him, it will just make him aware of your existence and possibly displeased.

I really like this explanation coupled with what appears to be his precipitous power creep. In CD we see Harry resisting Mother Winter based off of his humanity. I seem to recall a WOJ where he mentioned that one of Harry's latest "powerups" is having his daughter as a part of his life. This being a powerup because, in my paraphrase, "You have to become so much more mature. It's like, 'One of us has to grow up and it's not going to be you.'" This plays in with Harry's humanity being the foundation of his prodigious power.

So when Jim has Harry do something insane (like Darkhollow on Demon Reach with the Black Staff) Harry will be able to utilize that power more decidedly because of how he has been shaped to be decisive and "mature" in character.

Offline Magnus

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2017, 08:09:25 AM »
It does seem odd to me that he would use the word "conjure" specifically, which, to me, indicates that Harry could be summoned in some fashion (assuming the D&D school of conjuration magic terminology applies).

I don't think you can conjure mortals.
Actually we have WOJ that Harry will be summoned in one of the books just like that. It might be the Mirror Mirror book.
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Offline phoenixjustice

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2017, 06:32:20 PM »

  I think it is a hint at how powerful Harry will ultimately become..   Another hint was in Cold Days, the image Harry showed of himself in his head when he fought Sharkface on Demonreach..  He was not afraid to say who he was loudly and clearly, he was quite terrifying...

Agreed. That's how I always assumed it as well.


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Offline Paviel

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2017, 07:01:11 PM »
Quote
I'm not sure there would be specific consequences for summoning Dresden, other than a very pissed off Harry Dresden.

Which, given that "a very pissed off Harry Dresden" has been capable of genocide since "Changes," is deterrent enough.

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2017, 11:55:57 PM »
Which, given that "a very pissed off Harry Dresden" has been capable of genocide since "Changes," is deterrent enough.

Technically, anyone is capable of genocide if somebody else builds a genocide weapon and doesn't keep proper track over where it's pointed.

Offline jonas

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2017, 02:25:43 AM »
Technically, anyone is capable of genocide if somebody else builds a genocide weapon and doesn't keep proper track over where it's pointed.
But not everyone can find the will to simply press that button either.
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I'm sorry, My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.
Quote from: C Chaplin
...And so as long as men die, Liberty will never perish.