Author Topic: Arsonist Fae  (Read 13713 times)

Offline jonas

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2017, 09:37:37 PM »
Right, because Mab is going to save him?
Because Summer always acts in balance and what Winter did staying around to revive Harry cries of imbalance.
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2017, 10:32:15 PM »
Because Summer always acts in balance and what Winter did staying around to revive Harry cries of imbalance.
It doesn't do every single action. That's never been the case.

And why would Summer do that when it already has a balance to Harry -- the Summer Knight.

Why revive a flunky whose one trick (recruiting pixies) was A. stolen from Harry, B. less than ineffective (Harry recruited his biggest enforcer on the pixie squad) and C. was done in the service of folks trying to end reality?
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Offline jonas

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2017, 11:00:41 PM »
It doesn't do every single action. That's never been the case.
Empirically prove that? Cause acting in direct relation seems to be the queens thing. And that's not just some action, Winter during Summer.

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And why would Summer do that when it already has a balance to Harry -- the Summer Knight.
Because the SK has proven to be weak and friendly with the WK? Because his job is to be a balance to the WK?

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Why revive a flunky whose one trick (recruiting pixies) was A. stolen from Harry, B. less than ineffective (Harry recruited his biggest enforcer on the pixie squad) and C. was done in the service of folks trying to end reality?
Bomb's, current knowledge compared to old fae, knowing precisely where to ambush Harry with that bat, ect. Even Harry admits he gave him a run for his money.
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2017, 01:52:45 AM »
Empirically prove that? Cause acting in direct relation seems to be the queens thing. And that's not just some action, Winter during Summer.
I don't have to because it's obvious from the books that it doesn't happen that way.

What you're suggesting is that, for example, to mirror picking Harry as Winter Knight, Titania would go out and get a wizard for her Summer Knight, which she didn't do.

They act when the other acts. That has never meant they do the exact same things.

That's not even to mention that Lake Michigan freezing in the winter is not Summer's domain. It's Mab's, which is how she explains she grabs Harry.

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Because the SK has proven to be weak and friendly with the WK? Because his job is to be a balance to the WK?
So you pick a weaker guy that has no incentive to work for you, was actively working with the people trying to end the world, and who's already gotten his ass kicked by the Winter Knight he's supposed to mirror?

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Bomb's, current knowledge compared to old fae, knowing precisely where to ambush Harry with that bat, ect. Even Harry admits he gave him a run for his money.
And yet, Harry blows him away with a gun, and it's basically an afterthought at that point.

Look, he's just not some great adversary for Harry. He's a flunky of the real villain -- hell, a flunky of a flunky of the real villain -- whose demise is an afterthought at best.

He served his purpose (and failed at that), got shot, and fell into the waters of someplace that's explicitly not Summer's domain.

He's dead, Jim.
Compels solve everything!

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Offline isoycrazy

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2017, 03:18:43 AM »
I don't have to because it's obvious from the books that it doesn't happen that way.

What you're suggesting is that, for example, to mirror picking Harry as Winter Knight, Titania would go out and get a wizard for her Summer Knight, which she didn't do.

They act when the other acts. That has never meant they do the exact same things.

That's not even to mention that Lake Michigan freezing in the winter is not Summer's domain. It's Mab's, which is how she explains she grabs Harry.
So you pick a weaker guy that has no incentive to work for you, was actively working with the people trying to end the world, and who's already gotten his ass kicked by the Winter Knight he's supposed to mirror?
And yet, Harry blows him away with a gun, and it's basically an afterthought at that point.

Look, he's just not some great adversary for Harry. He's a flunky of the real villain -- hell, a flunky of a flunky of the real villain -- whose demise is an afterthought at best.

He served his purpose (and failed at that), got shot, and fell into the waters of someplace that's explicitly not Summer's domain.

He's dead, Jim.

I agree.  Ace is a tragic guy, for sure, but the amount of energy Mab wasted on saving Harry doesn't mean Titania will play that same card.  While she hates Harry, Mab using so much power to save him means that much less energy Mab has to use for a given time.  If an enemy nations wants to devote that level of resources to saving a person and disruption isn't possible, then the wise answer would be to wait and see if things come out good for the person who nearly died.

If he survives and Mab used that much to save him, maiming Harry again could make her waste more energy.  Or it could make Mab kill Harry.  Or Harry dies from his injuries regardless of Mab's actions.  That is a win-win-win for Titania.

Offline groinkick

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2017, 03:53:39 AM »
Because Summer always acts in balance and what Winter did staying around to revive Harry cries of imbalance.

I don't think that Summer, and Winter balancing is like how Angels balance things.  Winter/Summer balance has more to do with their base of power, not their actions taken, I think.  It's more likely balancing will be with Elaine becoming Summer Knight.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 03:59:17 AM by groinkick »
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Offline jonas

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2017, 10:03:31 AM »
I don't have to because it's obvious from the books that it doesn't happen that way.
Yea, that's wherecommunication breaks down ad I stop trying, yes. you do have to back up supposition. You can't even tell me where he got shot or if he chose his fae heritage if it coulda saved him.

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What you're suggesting is that, for example, to mirror picking Harry as Winter Knight, Titania would go out and get a wizard for her Summer Knight, which she didn't do.
*cough*Elaine*cough*, fyi anything not balanced by the courts gets balanced elsewhere... Now why don't you explain how Winter in Summer isn't imbalanced, through the direct and Willfull actions of the queen no less.

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They act when the other acts. That has never meant they do the exact same things.
In balance, In Balance. Mab has a powerful Weapon in Harry, Titania will require a balance, period.

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That's not even to mention that Lake Michigan freezing in the winter is not Summer's domain. It's Mab's, which is how she explains she grabs Harry.
Also the Fomor's, whom are N's court manifesting.
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So you pick a weaker guy that has no incentive to work for you, was actively working with the people trying to end the world, and who's already gotten his ass kicked by the Winter Knight he's supposed to mirror?
And yet, Harry blows him away with a gun, and it's basically an afterthought at that point.
He's not supposed to mirror him yet, he's a fricken Human still man....? ???

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Look, he's just not some great adversary for Harry. He's a flunky of the real villain -- hell, a flunky of a flunky of the real villain -- whose demise is an afterthought at best.
opinion.
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He served his purpose (and failed at that), got shot, and fell into the waters of someplace that's explicitly not Summer's domain.

He's dead, Jim.
YOUR not Jim, and that's not fricken WOJ. Don't try to write it up like it is, that's ridiculious. Have patience for the next book instead of insisting your right, cause when He pops up I WILL remind you ;;)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 10:19:02 AM by jonas »
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Offline jonas

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2017, 10:23:06 AM »
I don't think that Summer, and Winter balancing is like how Angels balance things.  Winter/Summer balance has more to do with their base of power, not their actions taken, I think.  It's more likely balancing will be with Elaine becoming Summer Knight.
The queens actions are specifically taken in tandem though.. Harry discusses it all the time, especially after He's targeted in WK prematurely. Which imo points to Mab and Titania actually being aware of the actions taken that require a direct balance, she knew from looking at the game board they share(which might quite literally be the stone table) Like a cross between battleship and Chess.
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2017, 01:01:37 PM »
Yea, that's wherecommunication breaks down ad I stop trying, yes. you do have to back up supposition. You can't even tell me where he got shot or if he chose his fae heritage if it coulda saved him.
Yes, I can

On that scene on the boat, Harry is explicitly shooting everyone who tries to come aboard.

He mentions seeing Ace's face in the light of the muzzle flash.

Ergo, he got shot.

Could his fae heritage have saved him? Probably not. The Redcap isn't known for being able to survive gunshot wounds. The big Redcap seemed to think Harry could kill him bare-handed.

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*cough*Elaine*cough*, fyi anything not balanced by the courts gets balanced elsewhere... Now why don't you explain how Winter in Summer isn't imbalanced, through the direct and Willfull actions of the queen no less.
You're not talking about Elaine. You're talking about Ace.

And Elaine isn't the Summer Knight.

You're putting way more literalism into "the faerie courts balance each other" than has ever been evidenced in the books. Them acting to counter one another does not mean they do the same things.

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In balance, In Balance. Mab has a powerful Weapon in Harry, Titania will require a balance, period.
She has one. His name is Fix.
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Also the Fomor's, whom are N's court manifesting.
So is it the Fomor, or Titania? Or is Titania working with the Fomor?

Why would the Fomor care so much? If they did grab him, they'd probably just make him into a rank and file servitor.
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He's not supposed to mirror him yet, he's a fricken Human still man....? ???
That's the point.

If Titania wanted to get an equal and opposite mirror to Harry, she wouldn't pick some random human whose track record against Harry is already 0-2. She'd get someone with real power already.

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YOUR not Jim, and that's not fricken WOJ. Don't try to write it up like it is, that's ridiculious.
So you've never heard of Star Trek?



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Have patience for the next book instead of insisting your right, cause when He pops up I WILL remind you ;;)
"Don't you dare insist you're right. Because I'm insisting I'm right!" Really?
Compels solve everything!

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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2017, 01:03:29 PM »
The queens actions are specifically taken in tandem though.. Harry discusses it all the time, especially after He's targeted in WK prematurely. Which imo points to Mab and Titania actually being aware of the actions taken that require a direct balance, she knew from looking at the game board they share(which might quite literally be the stone table) Like a cross between battleship and Chess.
Right, so when Mab named Harry emissary, what did Titania do again?

Did she find a wizard of Harry's power and make them emissary?

No, she just sent her already-Summer hit squad.

Ergo, no, the queens do not balance each other by taking the same actions.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

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Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

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Offline jonas

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2017, 02:19:51 PM »
Yes, I can

On that scene on the boat, Harry is explicitly shooting everyone who tries to come aboard.

He mentions seeing Ace's face in the light of the muzzle flash.

Ergo, he got shot.
Where, doesn't tell me where. Where matters, even an especially to a central mass shot with an older rifle.

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Could his fae heritage have saved him? Probably not. The Redcap isn't known for being able to survive gunshot wounds. The big Redcap seemed to think Harry could kill him bare-handed.
Yea... as the WK, sure... so? has nothing to do with what he's actually capable of surviving?
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not talking about Elaine. You're talking about Ace.
I'm talking about who can balance where, and if Ace is SK balance or N, balance to Harry's power, or if it all goes into the new mythos come the New Spiritus Animus....

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And Elaine isn't the Summer Knight.
Yet...

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You're putting way more literalism into "the faerie courts balance each other" than has ever been evidenced in the books. Them acting to counter one another does not mean they do the same things.
Never said 'same thing' precisely but to act in balance to each others actions... however we Have empirical evidence they do just that. Mab choose Harry to kill Maeve despite years in between PG and CD and waited for the balance of him having killed Aurora too. So she acted directly in mirror to that, just like i'm pointing out the possibility of here in Titania saving ace, from a gunshot wound, on a boat. Also, since more than just Mab had a han8d in Harry, more than Titania can have a hand in Ace, so...
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She has one. His name is Fix.So is it the Fomor, or Titania? Or is Titania working with the Fomor?
with that attitude I have no chance of hammering home some understanding...

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Why would the Fomor care so much? If they did grab him, they'd probably just make him into a rank and file servitor.That's the point.

If Titania wanted to get an equal and opposite mirror to Harry, she wouldn't pick some random human whose track record against Harry is already 0-2. She'd get someone with real power already.
So you've never heard of Star Trek?


"Don't you dare insist you're right. Because I'm insisting I'm right!" Really?
No I've never heard of anyone signing off as Jim, but Jim sorry. And considering you were arguing someone in his book was dead it's not the first thing that came to mind. An I'm not insisting I'm right, I'm insisting you can't prove I'm wrong and that I have a valid preponderance of the evidence. Subtle difference.. also, that you may be wrong.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 02:30:06 PM by jonas »
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Offline jonas

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2017, 02:27:54 PM »
Right, so when Mab named Harry emissary, what did Titania do again?

Did she find a wizard of Harry's power and make them emissary?

No, she just sent her already-Summer hit squad.

Ergo, no, the queens do not balance each other by taking the same actions.
Actually, the hit squad was in balance to the Fetches sent out by Mab last year, she just waited to act til it helped her more. The moves are not tit for tat, neither is a physical confrontation, but the moves of each have a semblance, a balanced action toward the other, a defense for an offense a reaction for an action.
Where in those actions are toward the unseelie accords I don't see Summer acting I balance at all actually, possibly because that's Winters legit business. They have no Seelie accords for instance, Summer must be a signatory in the accords, have to abide by the words of the law. No reason for a Summer emissary, wasn't vs Summer interests, so she took what action she could with her held back squad to send after a mortal dice roll from before.
 Harry set to kill Maeve years later proves my point absolutely. So if your gonna refute anything focus on what matters.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 02:35:39 PM by jonas »
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...And so as long as men die, Liberty will never perish.

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2017, 02:48:23 PM »
Where, doesn't tell me where. Where matters, even an especially to a central mass shot with an older rifle.
So what are you proposing here, that Harry shot Ace, and they just ... sat there till Harry got picked up? And that it's an "older rifle" doesn't matter. A gun doesn't become less lethal because it's an older model.

You're really reaching here.

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Yea... as the WK, sure... so? has nothing to do with what he's actually capable of surviving?
Sure. You're saying that getting blasted with a rifle wouldn't kill Ace, who hadn't Chosen and wouldn't have had the full power of the Redcap, while the Redcap himself felt he had to cheat in a hand-to-hand fight to beat Harry.

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I'm talking about who can balance where, and if Ace is SK balance or N, balance to Harry's power, or if it all goes into the new mythos come the New Spiritus Animus....
What on Earth are you talking about?

Look, Ace just isn't a "balance" to Harry's power. He's not. He doesn't have anywhere near the power or ability that Harry showed even before he was the Winter Knight. Ace is a goon, a flunky.

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Never said 'same thing' precisely but to act in balance to each others actions... however we Have empirical evidence they do just that. Mab choose Harry to kill Maeve despite years in between PG and CD and waited for the balance of him having killed Aurora too. So she acted directly in mirror to that, just like i'm pointing out the possibility of here in Titania saving ace, from a gunshot wound, on a boat. Also, since more than just Mab had a han8d in Harry, more than Titania can have a hand in Ace, so...
You did. You kept saying that because Harry was shot and killed on Lake Michigan, the same thing would happen to Ace.

And that's not at all why Mab had Harry kill Maeve. She had Harry kill Maeve because she was a nemesis agent, not because she felt her daughter had to die by Harry's hand because Aurora did.

Also, I'd like to point out that Titania doesn't care. About anything. Killing Aurora broke her, remember? She says as much. Just as she says she was talked out of punishing Harry over it. She just plain is not going to go to the effort to revive someone like Ace, if she's going to go to the effort of reviving anybody.

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with that attitude I have no chance of hammering home some understanding...
You're the one doing all the stretching to justify bringing back a character that nobody in the books has any incentive or reason to revive. Don't talk to me about "attitude."

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No I've never heard of anyone signing off as Jim, but Jim sorry. And considering you were arguing someone in his book was dead it's not the first thing that came to mind. An I'm not insisting I'm right, I'm insisting you can't prove I'm wrong and that I have a valid preponderance of the evidence. Subtle difference.. also, that you may be wrong.
Not "signing off as Jim." Quoting a line that's ubiquitous in pop culture in general and SF/Fantasy fandom in particular.

As for "not insisting I'm right," what do you call this:
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cause when He pops up I WILL remind you

That sounds like you're pretty darn insistent.

Actually, the hit squad was in balance to the Fetches sent out by Mab last year, she just waited to act til it helped her more.
There's nothing in the books that suggests this; the conclusion everyone comes to is that the move is directly because Harry is Winter's Emissary in that book. Hell, the word "fetch" is used once in the whole book, in reference to someone fetching a bag.

I mean, look at the Gruffs and the terms they're under. They're hunting Harry explicitly in relation to Marcone's capture. Eldest Gruff calls it off once Marcone and Harry are safely off the island. Everything about them is explicitly and directly about the Small Favor case, and nobody once suggests it's "balance" about the Fetches.

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I croaked, “Titania wants Marcone dead?”
“Put simply,” she replied. “And her Emissary will continue to
seek your death. Only by finding and saving the Baron’s life will
you preserve your own.” She paused. “Unless…”
“Unless?”
“Unless you should agree to take up the mantle of the Winter
Knight,” Mab said, smiling. “I should be forced to choose another
Emissary if you did, and your involvement in this matter could end.”
Her eyelids lowered, sleepily sensual, and her surrogate voice
turned liquid, heady, an audible caress. “As my Knight you would
know power and pleasure that few mortals have tasted.”
And there's Mab explicitly stating that Summer's emissary -- the Gruffs -- are after Harry because he's Mab's Emissary, explicitly in relation to the case of Marcone.

Again, nothing to do with the Fetches.

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Where in those actions are toward the unseelie accords I don't see Summer acting I balance at all actually, possibly because that's Winters legit business. They have no Seelie accords for instance, Summer must be a signatory in the accords, have to abide by the words of the law. No reason for a Summer emissary, wasn't vs Summer interests, so she took what action she could with her held back squad to send after a mortal dice roll from before.
Except Summer was involved. It's explicitly involved. That's why the Gruffs are hunting Harry, explicitly to do with the case that he's an emissary for. You're just straight up ignoring half the books.
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Harry set to kill Maeve years later proves my point absolutely. So if your gonna refute anything focus on what matters.
Nope, doesn't come anywhere near to proving your point. At this point, you're making things up and drawing connections the book never does.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 03:07:15 PM by Mr. Death »
Compels solve everything!

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Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

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Offline jonas

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2017, 03:25:44 PM »
So what are you proposing here, that Harry shot Ace, and they just ... sat there till Harry got picked up? And that it's an "older rifle" doesn't matter. A gun doesn't become less lethal because it's an older model.

Your really reaching here.
It actually effects both accuracy, penetration and power based upon the gun type. Your reaching all day to stop me, practically goal tending here lol.

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Sure. You're saying that getting blasted with a rifle wouldn't kill Ace, who hadn't Chosen and wouldn't have had the full power of the Redcap, while the Redcap himself felt he had to cheat in a hand-to-hand fight to beat Harry.
the red cap cheats it's his nature... pouncing on unsuspecting vics an all.
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What on Earth are you talking about?
*sing song* I'll never tell...
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Look, Ace just isn't a "balance" to Harry's power. He's not. He doesn't have anywhere near the power or ability that Harry showed even before he was the Winter Knight. Ace is a goon, a flunky.
Winter makes weapons, Summer arms them fyi, different standard.
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You did. You kept saying that because Harry was shot and killed on Lake Michigan, the same thing would happen to Ace.
Don't play the I don't understand nuances card, I've seen that before.

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And that's not at all why Mab had Harry kill Maeve. She had Harry kill Maeve because she was a nemesis agent, not because she felt her daughter had to die by Harry's hand because Aurora did.
Aurora was acting with N as well fyi, and that second point is my point, thanks for finally seeing it. She 'felt' that because harry did it, it should be done by him in balance

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Also, I'd like to point out that Titania doesn't care. About anything. Killing Aurora broke her, remember? She says as much. Just as she says she was talked out of punishing Harry over it. She just plain is not going to go to the effort to revive someone like Ace, if she's going to go to the effort of reviving anybody.
If Harry admits he cant possibly predict a fae woman, how shall we? If she didn't care she wouldn't have Told him about N.
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You're the one doing all the stretching to justify bringing back a character that nobody in the books has any incentive or reason to revive. Don't talk to me about "attitude."
No, i'm pointing out the actual justifications in the thematic storyline, and your trying to disprove a point not disprovable. It stand alone as an idea with it's own reasoning opinionating it to death won't work. and you outright refused to give empirical evidence(which is your own perspective proof btw)
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Not "signing off as Jim." Quoting a line that's ubiquitous in pop culture in general and SF/Fantasy fandom in particular.

As for "not insisting I'm right," what do you call this:
That sounds like you're pretty darn insistent.
I'm pretty darn certain, i'm not trying to insist you have the same view or break yours. You choose to respon8de to me that it wasn't possible after all.
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There's nothing in the books that suggests this; the conclusion everyone comes to is that the move is directly because Harry is Winter's Emissary in that book.
You don't know me at all do ye? The suggestion is that since it happen8ed hours before something was afoot with it, I supplied my own reasoned deduction. Which has valid points in it as well...

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I mean, look at the Gruffs and the terms they're under. They're hunting Harry explicitly in relation to Marcone's capture. Eldest Gruff calls it off once Marcone and Harry are safely off the island. Everything about them is explicitly and directly about the Small Favor case, and nobody once suggests it's "balance" about the Fetches.
Why would they need to? Fae offer up free info when it's meant to be a mystery anyway?
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Except Summer was involved. It's explicitly involved. That's why the Gruffs are hunting Harry, explicitly to do with the case that he's an emissary for. You're just straight up ignoring half the books.
Must be mutual? fyi Gruff says once the field of battle has been concluded, he never directly states we're here as Summers version of an emissary. your missing the point of my response there. instead of sending an emissary to the matter, which was directly in reply to the queens action fyi, they sent a hit squad...
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Nope, doesn't come anywhere near to proving your point. At this point, you're making things up and drawing connections the book never does.
Yea, drawing conclusions the books don't that's why some of us are here you know?
figured you'd ignore the only thing that matters by dismissing it. i'm done with arguing and receiving disbelief to try an refute valid points. Mab sending harry in direct semblance to him killing Aurora proves m9y point entirely fyi.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 03:27:56 PM by jonas »
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Arsonist Fae
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2017, 03:49:32 PM »
It actually effects both accuracy, penetration and power based upon the gun type. Your reaching all day to stop me, practically goal tending here lol.
Nope. I'm stating what's stated in the books. No reaching at all.
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the red cap cheats it's his nature... pouncing on unsuspecting vics an all.
Right, does "ambush unsuspecting victims" sound like something that's going to be strong and resilient?

Look at nature. Ambush predators avoid stand-up fights because they can't do stand-up fights.

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*sing song* I'll never tell...
Right, so we're going into pure childishness here?
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Winter makes weapons, Summer arms them fyi, different standard.
Irrelevant. Ace is still nothing special. You're moving the goalposts with every answer.

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Don't play the I don't understand nuances card, I've seen that before.
Not playing that card at all. There's no nuance to what you're saying. You're making things up and ignoring the text of the books in some weird attempt to make Ace out to be more important than he is.
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Aurora was acting with N as well fyi, and that second point is my point, thanks for finally seeing it. She 'felt' that because harry did it, it should be done by him in balance
That's still not Mab's motivation. Her motivation has nothing to do with Harry or balance, any more than it did when she cured Lea.

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If Harry admits he cant possibly predict a fae woman, how shall we? If she didn't care she wouldn't have Told him about N.
She says as much, and she can't lie.

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No, i'm pointing out the actual justifications in the thematic storyline, and your trying to disprove a point not disprovable. It stand alone as an idea with it's own reasoning opinionating it to death won't work. and you outright refused to give empirical evidence(which is your own perspective proof btw)
I've pointed to the text of the books. Repeatedly. You've ignored the text of the books. Repeatedly. There isn't a "thematic" reason to bring Ace back. He's a low-level flunky who wasn't even good at the meager jobs he tried to do. His story is that of the tragic coward. You know how Harry's a medium fish in a large pond? Ace is a minnow.

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I'm pretty darn certain, i'm not trying to insist you have the same view or break yours. You choose to respon8de to me that it wasn't possible after all.
I think if you look through my posts, I never said it wasn't possible. I said it's not going to happen because Ace doesn't matter, he's not a "balance" to Harry, he was shot dead by Harry in territory where Summer had no influence, and Titania isn't going to bother because she can barely be arsed to do anything at all these days.

The idea that anyone is going to revive Ace involves ignoring all of that and appending importance and ability to him that he just plain does not have.

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You don't know me at all do ye? The suggestion is that since it happen8ed hours before something was afoot with it, I supplied my own reasoned deduction. Which has valid points in it as well...
Except, as I just quoted (empirical evidence, remember?) Mab outright and explicitly says they're hunting Harry in specific relation to Marcone's capture.

The Gruffs themselves say they're hunting Harry in specific relation to Marcone's capture.

The idea that it's balance for the Fetches is never once suggested by anyone in the course of the whole book. That's not "reasoned deduction," that's jumping to a totally unsupported conclusion.

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Why would they need to? Fae offer up free info when it's meant to be a mystery anyway?
It's not meant to be a mystery. They are explicitly clear why they're acting. You're looking for a "mystery" to justify the idea that Ace could come back, when there is in reality nothing there.

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Must be mutual? fyi Gruff says once the field of battle has been concluded, he never directly states we're here as Summers version of an emissary. your missing the point of my response there. instead of sending an emissary to the matter, which was directly in reply to the queens action fyi, they sent a hit squad...
Mab says they're Summer's Emissary. She can't lie.

And that Summer sent a hit squad was my point. That Summer does not mirror Winter's action with the same action, and I was saying so to refute the point that Ace must have been revived from being shot on Lake Michigan because of your assertion that he would have because that's what Winter did for Harry.

You are, again, moving the goalposts.

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Yea, drawing conclusions the books don't that's why some of us are here you know?
figured you'd ignore the only thing that matters by dismissing it. i'm done with arguing and receiving disbelief to try an refute valid points. Mab sending harry in direct semblance to him killing Aurora proves m9y point entirely fyi.
You're jumping to conclusions on things the books never say, and in fact indicate the opposite. You're stuck on this idea that Ace is some kind of nemesis of Harry, when that's simply not the case.

Just saying "it proves my point" doesn't make it true. I've already addressed that point.
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