Arsonist Fae

[isoycrazy]

Question.  Just how severe does a threshold and hospitality protect a person? 

Say Murphy angered a summer fae.  Without crossing the threshold, could this fae get vengeance by burning Murphy's home to the ground  with her in it?

Or the same with Harry, and be like the Ebs and burn his place down?  Or is it because the damage couldn't be garunteed to stop at just Harry's place, harm would befall innocent bystandards or their property, and that unjust harm would mean the fae is now in debt to these mortals for his stupid actions, the fae would just wait until Harry is more in the open to take vengeance?

That makes me wonder if Titania fitted the bill for the damage Tiny Gruff did to the train station?

[DonBugen]

That's an interesting question. Reds can't cross a threshold, but as demonstrated, a well-tossed molotov cocktail does the job for them.

I think the answer has to do with how the fire is attempted, and the strength of the threshold. If a summer Fae tried sending fireballs against Murph's house, I'm sure that the magic would just splash harmlessly against her threshold. Lily's ball o' sunshine might get through in a very weakened state. Of course, a burning branch tossed against the house wouldn't be hindered.

But then, there's the question of what one can do and what one would do. There's a lot of rules and laws about faeries appearing behind ones threshold, and faeries are notorious lawyers about these sorts of things. Honestly, I do wonder if a Faerie would even try to be so gauche as to get behind a threshold or do something untoward to a person behind their threshold. Only the most powerful probably could attempt it (remember, Butters was safe in Murphy'so house) and it just seems like something that one does not do.

Last - Titania, cover the costs at the train station? Not likely. Though I think that Mac might have received some sort of compensation for his ceiling fans. Everyone in the Dresdenverse loves Mac.

[Rasins]

If you'll recall, the Cat Sith said about the laws of hospitality that if he were threatened, he'd leave and wait until they were no longer behind a threshold to take his vengeance.

Now that does not mean that they couldn't do like the Ebs and throw a something afire at the house.  Actually I don't think the Eb's Molotov Cocktail even his Harry's door, didn't it hit his stairs and spread from there?

[jonas]

That's an interesting question. Reds can't cross a threshold,

Do we know that for sure? Cause Archangel was actually lived at for instance. Might not have had a strong homely feel but multiple people stayed there too. An they stomped all over it... I'm just wondering if it's explicitly stated or just a generalized assumption.

[DonBugen]

Almost 100% positive; Harry states it (I think) either in Storm Front or Grave Peril. I'll have to look tomorrow to get the exact statement. It might have been something like, "Reds can't cross without completely incapacitating themselves."  Thoughave in my memory, he was comparing black, red, and white, so maybe it was later.

[Snark Knight]

Almost 100% positive; Harry states it (I think) either in Storm Front or Grave Peril. I'll have to look tomorrow to get the exact statement. It might have been something like, "Reds can't cross without completely incapacitating themselves."  Thoughave in my memory, he was comparing black, red, and white, so maybe it was later.

I believe it was that White are barely hindered, Red lose a lot of their powers, and Black are essentially incapacitated.

Though the effectiveness of their attack on Archangel strongly suggests they were not largely crippled by the threshold. My guess is whichever traitor betrayed wards also invited them in. And I wouldn't be shocked if they brought an Ick or three to that particular party, either.

[Gman]

I think for some, it depends on how strong the threshhold is.

[Mr. Death]

Yeah, if you consider a threshold as essentially a barrier with a variable strength (like how, say, Michael's threshold is stronger than Harry's), some creatures are probably less hindered than others.

If we (completely arbitrarily) rated a Red Court at 3 and Kalshazzak at 6, then Michael's 10-strength threshold would stop either of them cold, while Harry's piddly 2-strength threshold would seriously hamper a Red Court, but didn't slow down the toad demon very much.

[Rasins]

The Toad Demon got over Harry's threshold.  Granted he doesn't have much of one, but it still got across.

[Mr. Death]

The Toad Demon got over Harry's threshold.  Granted he doesn't have much of one, but it still got across.

Right; it still had to put some effort into it, though.

[Rasins]

And I think Bob mentioned that even once he was across the threshold, all the toad demon did was all physical attacks, his acid spit, and physically breaking things.

So, I'd bet the Ebs or other Reds could have done something similar.

[Kindler]

Question.  Just how severe does a threshold and hospitality protect a person? 

Say Murphy angered a summer fae.  Without crossing the threshold, could this fae get vengeance by burning Murphy's home to the ground  with her in it?

Or the same with Harry, and be like the Ebs and burn his place down?  Or is it because the damage couldn't be garunteed to stop at just Harry's place, harm would befall innocent bystandards or their property, and that unjust harm would mean the fae is now in debt to these mortals for his stupid actions, the fae would just wait until Harry is more in the open to take vengeance?

That makes me wonder if Titania fitted the bill for the damage Tiny Gruff did to the train station?

Honestly, I don't see why they couldn't. They're rules lawyers. Harry points out that being unable to lie hasn't done anything to limit their ability to deceive.

I wouldn't put it past someone like the Red Cap, for instance, to rig a trap to a shotgun that kills Harry when he opens a window.

I think the distinction might be down the the nature of the Thing in question. It wouldn't really occur to someone like Cat Sith to burn Harry's apartment down because he's an ambush predator. Nor would the Erlking do something like that, because it's in his nature to hunt, not demolish. Does that make sense to anyone else, or is this just something I'm pulling out of my posterior?

[groinkick]

Another thing to consider about the Sidhe is the way they are hardwired.  The way they hardwired for balance, and deals ect...  Saying that someone might "anger" a Sidhe may not be enough for said Sidhe to just be able to target the person for murder.  On the other hand something a mortal may consider innocent, and not a big deal can result in their death.  Because of a Sidhe's nature I don't think it's easy to flesh out what they are capable of, and for what reason.


For example:  Murphy killed Maeve.  It had to be done.  Mab caused Murphy to kill Maeve by removing the handcuffs.  With all that being said I would not be at all surprised if Mab has a punishment planned for Murphy even if it doesn't make much sense since she had set things in motion for fulfilling that purpose.

[Kindler]

Another thing to consider about the Sidhe is the way they are hardwired.  The way they hardwired for balance, and deals ect...  Saying that someone might "anger" a Sidhe may not be enough for said Sidhe to just be able to target the person for murder.  On the other hand something a mortal may consider innocent, and not a big deal can result in their death.  Because of a Sidhe's nature I don't think it's easy to flesh out what they are capable of, and for what reason.


For example:  Murphy killed Maeve.  It had to be done.  Mab caused Murphy to kill Maeve by removing the handcuffs.  With all that being said I would not be at all surprised if Mab has a punishment planned for Murphy even if it doesn't make much sense since she had set things in motion for fulfilling that purpose.

Murphy was injured in service to Mab (by way of Harry) during Skin Game, so I think Harry would argue that their account is settled.

[groinkick]

Murphy was injured in service to Mab (by way of Harry) during Skin Game, so I think Harry would argue that their account is settled.

You think someone that brought the kind of pain, and suffering to Slate would consider the account settled for the death of her daughter?  I don't believe so...  I would not be remotely shocked if Mab's idea of settling the account would be to murder Murphy's future child...  Or to enslave her child...  Or maybe torturing Murphy until she's begging for death, only to punish her for years more to come.