Author Topic: Starborn idea  (Read 14917 times)

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2017, 09:17:47 PM »
Cough - Kumori - cough.
I think that we are sharing the same sore throat.
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Offline Rasins

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2017, 02:18:23 PM »
I believe that Margaret DID know of the need for a Starborn.  I don't believe that Thomas was her first attempt.  It think she was just enjoying great sex.

But, it's entirely possible that she learned of the need, and maybe the process, for creating a Starborn, from Pappa Raith's library.  And then she started working on a means of escape.

Further, I believe that Justin was in on the plan. 

Here's a further WAG ... Margart was trying to get the Vampire courts together to take over the outer gates.
I doubt it as far as Thomas was concerned, evidence for that is the fact that she left him behind when she ran off with Malcolm.  If she was trying with Lord Raith to conceive a star child her motives were way different from what they were when she conceived Harry....  Lash confirms this by saying meeting Malcolm gave her the courage to leave Lord Raith, then she went about the business of conceiving Harry.  Since we don't know the exact alignments, genes, etc to make a star child, it is unclear ..  If what you are saying is true, why didn't she just stick around and have another baby with Lord Raith if she failed the first time?

Also, I believe there is a WOJ that she was just enjoying the great Wampire sex and .... things happened, ie. Thomas.
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Offline kazimmoinuddin

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2017, 09:49:50 PM »
Margaret preserved her knowledge of the ways, so I wondered if she did the same for the rest of her magical lore, which would include what she knew about star Borns. She knew Harry would face a big burden, so having her grey lore would be an invaluable advantage. I could see her hiding the location of her stash somewhere in her way gem.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2017, 11:54:15 AM »
Margaret preserved her knowledge of the ways, so I wondered if she did the same for the rest of her magical lore, which would include what she knew about star Borns. She knew Harry would face a big burden, so having her grey lore would be an invaluable advantage. I could see her hiding the location of her stash somewhere in her way gem.

She did gift him with another gem, remember?  In the soul gaze with Thomas where they speak she sends a "gift/gem" straight to his brain, "insight."   Insight has served Harry well since then..

Offline Froklsnt

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2017, 02:56:45 PM »
I believe that Margaret DID know of the need for a Starborn.  I don't believe that Thomas was her first attempt.  It think she was just enjoying great sex.

But, it's entirely possible that she learned of the need, and maybe the process, for creating a Starborn, from Pappa Raith's library.  And then she started working on a means of escape.

Further, I believe that Justin was in on the plan. 

Here's a further WAG ... Margart was trying to get the Vampire courts together to take over the outer gates.

I don't think she ran off WITH Malcolm.  I think she met him while on the run.

I think she was trying to create a starborn with LR.  She told Eb that she was with LR to accomplish something, that they had a plan.

I think it more likely that Elaine's parents didn't know, but someone (Justin) saw the circumstances of her birth and figured it was possible.  He then killed the parents and arranged to become the foster parent.  IIRC he adopted Harry for pretty much the same reason.

In Blood Rights Ch 35, Eb clarifies a few of these details:

Quote from:  Blood Rights Ch 35
I don't know why, but for some reason she turned away from her previous associates, including Justin DuMorne. After that, no where was safe for her. She ran, from her former allies and from the wardens for perhaps two years... She met your father. A man, a mortal without powers, without influence, without resources, but a man with a good soul like few I have ever seen. I believe she fell in love with him.

Combined with what Eb tells about the dinner with Margaret, Lord Raith, Ariana and himself in the last chapter of Changes, we can infer a few facts:

  • The attempt to conceive a starborn was a deliberate plan involving, at a minimum Lord Raith and Ariana. Justin was also a likely co-conspirator.
  • She met Malcolm after leaving Lord Raith, not before. Which isn't to say she didn't deliberately seek out a man with a "good soul."

In DuMorne, Raith, and Ariana of RCV, we have three known Outsider associates. Whether the starborn plan originated from one of them or from Margaret, it seems likely that learning of their Outsider associations / plans for her potential child were what drove her away. Leaving Thomas behind means she didn't leave simply out of mother's love / "You won't harm my baby," so it's more likely she left with the deliberate purpose in mind to subvert their pro-Outsider agenda. It is possible / reasonable to think she thought out someone like Malcolm for just that end. Or maybe the father didn't factor in, hard to say. The conversation with Malcolm in Dead Beat suggests he's at least in on the plan post-mortum, but there's no evidence either way if he had knowledge of it before his death.

The assumption that this triumvirate had something to do with Malcolm's death is reasonable. What I am curious about is if Elaine was known to the rest of the group, or only Justin. And if she was similarly cultivated, or just come upon by Justin?

Offline Kindler

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2017, 03:06:02 PM »
She did gift him with another gem, remember?  In the soul gaze with Thomas where they speak she sends a "gift/gem" straight to his brain, "insight."   Insight has served Harry well since then..

As I recall, there hasn't been much of anything even mentioned about the physical gem since Changes. Seems a bit weird, actually, considering that Harry was basically hanging out on Demonreach for a year without studying it. Though I guess he was a bit preoccupied with making replacement gear. Maybe he and Bonnie will look into it together as a bonding experience.

It kind of has to come up again soon, because Lea mentioned a price to be paid for the knowledge—Margaret couldn't sleep soundly ever again, so I expect him to have something similar. If Butcher really wants to torture him, an enforced vow of chastity would be in order...

Offline Rasins

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2017, 03:58:07 PM »
LOL ... forced Chastity ... for a KNIGHT!!
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

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Offline Froklsnt

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2017, 07:14:33 PM »
As I recall, there hasn't been much of anything even mentioned about the physical gem since Changes.

It is mentioned in CD that Mab had it properly set into the Pentacle necklace by a jeweler of some sort, as opposed to the ugly epoxy job Harry did on-the-fly in CH. But you're right, he hasn't had to use it since. One more piece of gear not living up to it's potential. I suppose the past two stories were pretty Chicago-centric, but Harry probably could have checked out the possible ritual locations in CD himself, instead of using the Guard.

Jim has said that the scale of these stories will be going up geographically as we draw closer to the BAT. That's the reason for introducing Tilly and seeding the idea that Lara has Congressmen under her sway. I imagine Harry will have more cause to use the Ways as things progress.

Offline kazimmoinuddin

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2017, 10:11:05 PM »
Ever since the pentagram got the gem in the center, I wondered if there are other gems to fit the other empty segments.
k moinuddin

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2017, 11:14:35 PM »
A Voltron necklace?
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Offline jb3435

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2017, 02:30:55 AM »
Quote
A Voltron necklace?

LOL

Offline Mira

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2017, 03:17:40 AM »
As I recall, there hasn't been much of anything even mentioned about the physical gem since Changes. Seems a bit weird, actually, considering that Harry was basically hanging out on Demonreach for a year without studying it. Though I guess he was a bit preoccupied with making replacement gear. Maybe he and Bonnie will look into it together as a bonding experience.

It kind of has to come up again soon, because Lea mentioned a price to be paid for the knowledge—Margaret couldn't sleep soundly ever again, so I expect him to have something similar. If Butcher really wants to torture him, an enforced vow of chastity would be in order...

I don't know how much he could study it, it was basically a red gem if I recall correctly, sort of a magical microchip I imagine.  He couldn't travel with it since the thing in his head wouldn't let him leave the island.  At the moment his plate is pretty full so not much time for exploring the Ways just for the sake of it.  However I doubt that we've heard the last about it..  Thing is, if Harry used it all of the time to get where he needs to go it would became an all too easy plot device..

Offline Kindler

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2017, 05:06:20 PM »
I don't know how much he could study it, it was basically a red gem if I recall correctly, sort of a magical microchip I imagine.  He couldn't travel with it since the thing in his head wouldn't let him leave the island.  At the moment his plate is pretty full so not much time for exploring the Ways just for the sake of it.  However I doubt that we've heard the last about it..  Thing is, if Harry used it all of the time to get where he needs to go it would became an all too easy plot device..

Well, yeah, he hasn't needed to use it. I'm saying that for someone with an orphan complex as bad as Harry, it's a bit odd that he hasn't spent time examining or studying the thing that lets him hear his mother's voice.

The knowledge in the gem was recorded like personal notes. What else is on there besides directions through the Ways? Seems like something Harry would want to know—in fact, be desperate to know.

Offline Mira

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2017, 10:25:52 PM »
Well, yeah, he hasn't needed to use it. I'm saying that for someone with an orphan complex as bad as Harry, it's a bit odd that he hasn't spent time examining or studying the thing that lets him hear his mother's voice.

The knowledge in the gem was recorded like personal notes. What else is on there besides directions through the Ways? Seems like something Harry would want to know—in fact, be desperate to know.

Does it let him hear his mother's voice?  I thought it just acted like a virtual road map of the Ways...

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Starborn idea
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2017, 10:43:56 PM »
There is running commentary.
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