A Cowl WAG - I promise it's new

[Snark Knight]

Like Jonas, I have pointed out the possibility that Lucio could have been compromised and location of camp leaked.

Still after Cowl's first appearance in DB and the allusion to having read Warden threat assessments on Harry.

[jonas]

Luccio wasn't compromised until after that conversation. And while Peabody was a Circle traitor, I think he must have been operating in a different cell of the organization than Cowl.

Oh? an now we have proof when Luccio was compromised do we? So Peabody playing the long game getting everyone who signed papers under his ink including ever single warden who checked in at headquarters would just not include Luccio at any point in time prior? Except Cowl is the one who took the ghouls to camp Kaboom, showing a definite connection between cowl and the WC traitors.

It simply doesn't make sense that finding Die Lied Der Erlking was important to Cowl if he was already getting regular document dumps from the guy who wrote it.

The guy who miswrote the title lol? How about the fact they were both tracking down and taking care of all the other copies in existence? Lacking in photographic memory whom would attempt to summon a being of EK's strength whom you've never called upon before?  Or the fact Cowl was surmised by Harry to understand things about he dark hallow that wasn't even wrote down In the word by either Laciel's translation or Grevene's lack of outward comment?(which was planned long before he actually got ahold of E-Bob btw)
So.. what do we have again? The idea Peabody and Cowl were in separate splinter cells and information was NOT passed between them by a mutual handler?

[Griffyn612]

Luccio wasn't compromised until after that conversation. And while Peabody was a Circle traitor, I think he must have been operating in a different cell of the organization than Cowl. It simply doesn't make sense that finding Die Lied Der Erlking was important to Cowl if he was already getting regular document dumps from the guy who wrote it.

Cowl didn't need a copy for himself.  He was trying to remove copies that the others could use.  They'd been gathering the copies for weeks, if I recall.

[Snark Knight]

Oh? an now we have proof when Luccio was compromised do we?

At some point after getting bodyswapped. The part that proves it is where the text of TC outright says it was the bodyswap that made her vulnerable to influence, where an older wizard's mind would normally have been too set in its ways to be forcibly altered like that. Morgan is full of self-recrimination over not predicting that could be an issue.

Cowl didn't need a copy for himself.  He was trying to remove copies that the others could use.  They'd been gathering the copies for weeks, if I recall.

There's a considerable distance between what he says about his motivations in front of Kumori in that scene, and what he actually does later. Early on he claims to be trying to foil the others by removing the books, but in the end he actually preferred to see someone else risk the Erlking's wrath by doing the actual summoning, and swoop in himself at the last moment of the Darkhallow. If you reread him talking to Harry after knocking him on the head in Murphy's back yard - when Kumori wasn't around to have her impression that he's trying to use dark power to do good ruined by him talking honestly - he's quite open that he can work with one of the other two doing the summoning step, but he had to stop Harry foiling that.

Now, maybe he's just insane due to nemfection, and his actions are all over the map. But personally, I think his efforts to get other copies out of circulation were primarily for the sake of maintaining Kumori's illusions about his real motives so she would stay obedient, rather than a significant interest in denying the summoning incantation to other players.

[jonas]

At some point after getting bodyswapped. The part that proves it is where the text of TC outright says it was the bodyswap that made her vulnerable to influence, where an older wizard's mind would normally have been too set in its ways to be forcibly altered like that. Morgan is full of self-recrimination over not predicting that could be an issue.

Indeed but he was already hard at work on all the WC power structure long before she became a liability.

[raidem]

Wait which book did camp kaboom get hit. It wasn't dead beat which I think you believe, snark.  That is why our argument that we don't know when she was tampered with is valid.  We aren't saying, or at least I'm not saying that she was tampered with pre dead beat beyond anything subtle like other senior council members were.

Camp kaboom occurs between dead beat and white knight which would give Peabody time to tamper with her.

[Rasins]

Wait, we KNOW Luccio was messed with.  Is the question when did it start?

[raidem]

The argument started on last Jonas post of first page, followed by snarks statement regarding Lucio, then my rebuttal.

Snark was in error on the timeline of camp kaboom which occurs between books in a flashback. So Lucio isn't exonerated as a potential leaker of camp kaboom due to not having been body swapped yet which is what snark believed, or at least implied.  It is possible that she hadn't been tampered with yet but it can't be excluded as was suggested.

I hope that makes some sense.

Snark is correct in first post on this page but really doesn't pertain to the issue Jonas pointed out.  That we really don't need another suspect to have compromised the location of camp kaboom other than Peabody, or him via tampered Lucio.

I still think Peabody had major support within the council to be so effective at compromising so many.

[jonas]

The argument started on last Jonas post of first page, followed by snarks statement regarding Lucio, then my rebuttal.

Snark was in error on the timeline of camp kaboom which occurs between books in a flashback. So Lucio isn't exonerated as a potential leaker of camp kaboom due to not having been body swapped yet which is what snark believed, or at least implied.  It is possible that she hadn't been tampered with yet but it can't be excluded as was suggested.

I hope that makes some sense.

Snark is correct in first post on this page but really doesn't pertain to the issue Jonas pointed out.  That we really don't need another suspect to have compromised the location of camp kaboom other than Peabody, or him via tampered Lucio.

I still think Peabody had major support within the council to be so effective at compromising so many.

Indeed, it's nothing solid but. The look Langtry gave him was described like a hungry shark, sharks go into frenzies when wounded are in the water. So I think this was a reference to him being ready to 'eat' Peabody to preserve his own cover.

[raidem]

Yeah, I've thought the same.  I've argued the point that he is no good, or if good then was heavily manipulated in proven guilty.

[Rasins]

Yeah, I've thought the same.  I've argued the point that he is no good, or if good then was heavily manipulated in proven guilty.

Personally I don't like Langtry, but I do think he wants to keep the council together.  I don't believe he's working with the Black Council or anyone else.  I think he was compromised by Peabody.

I think that Peabody compromised a BUNCH of the Wizards who frequented the Headquarters.  I think Luccio got a double whammy.  I think she was hit before and after her body swap, and that after was especially hard because she'd already been hammered as a more mature Wizard.

[Firestarter]

First of all, I don't think, that Simon Petrovich is Cowl. Why? "Where is the Russian?" Cowl, from what I can remember, has a Germanic accent. Not Russian.

Langtry is a politician. He does what he can to stay in power and keep the White council together. That's why people who rebel aren't liked by him.

Camp Kaboom was hit some time before White Night.

Cowl doesn't like "the bad man Kemmler". Maybe we've seen his character, maybe not. It might be interesting, but I don't recall any characters with a German [ ok, it's also possible to be Netherland ] accent. But given, that Die Lieder des Erlkönigs were collected in Germany, he is already familiar with summoning Herne the Hunter.

[KurtinStGeorge]

First of all, I don't think, that Simon Petrovich is Cowl. Why? "Where is the Russian?" Cowl, from what I can remember, has a Germanic accent. Not Russian.

I never thought of Cowl as having a German accent or really any kind of accent.  The only clue Cowl might be German is he knew the difference between Shubert's music Erlkönig and Goethe's poem, which provide the words used in the song.  However, you don't have to be Austrian or German to know who those two people were.  Harry has any affinity for classical music so he's heard of Franz Shubert and probably went to concerts where his music was played.  Whether he's read much poetry or anything by Goethe is something we have no way of knowing, but I wouldn't be surprised if Harry is much better read than the average college graduate because he doesn't have a TV, radio or the internet. 

Cowl doesn't like "the bad man Kemmler". Maybe we've seen his character, maybe not. It might be interesting, but I don't recall any characters with a German [ ok, it's also possible to be Netherland ] accent. But given, that Die Lieder des Erlkönigs were collected in Germany, he is already familiar with summoning Herne the Hunter.

Maybe Cowl already knew about summoning Herne the Hunter or maybe he he didn't care who called him as long as it was done close enough for Cowl's purposes.  Destroying the books was one way to prevent someone in say Milwaukee from calling up Lord Herne on the very night Cowl needed him in Chicago. 

[wardenferry419]

I think it would make for a better story for Cowl to be someone that Harry has heard about or seen than for it to be some unknown magic-user that has been around for 100+ years and was never foreshadowed.

[Snark Knight]

Wait which book did camp kaboom get hit. It wasn't dead beat which I think you believe, snark.  That is why our argument that we don't know when she was tampered with is valid.  We aren't saying, or at least I'm not saying that she was tampered with pre dead beat beyond anything subtle like other senior council members were.

There were two training camps attacked - the one in PG that Michael helped Eb and the other SC heavies evacuate survivors from, and Camp Kaboom from Harry's flashback in WN that was hit by the ghoul raiders (even in the flashback, he was a Warden, so it had to be at most between DB and WN).

I don't think either was necessarily even anything to do with Luccio being compromised though. That's one possibility, but it's also possible Peabody might just have got a look at documents showing the locations and been overlooked as a suspect.