Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?

[Griffyn612]

Were the Eebs the ones who took Maggie and slaughtered her foster family? Such a personal link would make them a good chance to reappear to torment Maggie, and for her to see her father deal with the monsters of her nightmares.

I don't think we know.  Given their methodology, I'd say it's a good possibility. 

[LordDresden2]

Don't see it. Winter rolls right over RC or Council without blinking. Summer the same.

They can...except that they can't.  The weird rules that bind the Sidhe mean that they can only bring their full power to bear in limited cases.  Yeah, they've got the raw juice to defeat the Council, but are hamstrung in using it, and the Council is strong enough to make crushing them expensive, even for the Fairie Courts.

Among the non-Sidhe supernatural states, the Council is one of the Big Dogs.

The way the Fomor managed to slot so quickly right into the vacuum left by the RC shows that they are a similarly (or larger) sized organization that can hold their own against either.

No, it doesn't.  Anybody can step into a vacuum.  We don't know that the Fomor have fully filled the vacuum left by the RC, in fact they almost certainly have not done so. The Fomor are one of many groups competing to fill part of the void left by the absence of the RC.  They've managed to do a lot of in and around Chicago, but not necessarily planet-wide.

One of the most notable attacks by the RC was only possible with some minor assistance from the Fomor; if they fully threw in with either side the war would've been over in a month.

Probably not.  The Fomor on their own are potent, but not that potent.  They'd have been useful allies to either side, but no more.\

The White Council had a hard time with the Red Court for multiple reasons:

1.  They were complacent and ill-prepared, and their leadership (aided by Peabody, possibly others) were fractious and riven and didn't want to deal with the reality of what was happening.

2.  The Red Court had been preparing, laying the groundwork, for the war for quite some time before it broke out.  They had plans in place and resources ready.

3.  The Council still hasn't found a fully effective way to deal with the tech bane issue, and they hadn't been trying very hard as of the start of the Red War.

4.  Caught off-guard, the Council lost a lot of their assets fast in the early days of the war, and had to struggle back from behind as a result.

5.  The Reds had help from Outside, the Circle/Black Council/whatever they are, and other hidden allies.

Even so, the war was gradually starting to turn as time passed.  The Wizards were slowly pushing back the Reds.  Both sides were preparing their respective knockout punches when Harry made the issue moot, so we don't know how that would have played out.

[kazimmoinuddin]

I wonder since the rcv prepared for this war, could these plans and preparations have been shared with the fomor?

[forumghost]

I wonder since the rcv prepared for this war, could these plans and preparations have been shared with the fomor?

Since part of that prep involved things like "Buying Bio-Weapons from the Formor" probably on some level, yeah.

TBH though I really dislike the Formor. They just come out of nowhere and are suddenly an even bigger threat then the Red Court and have literally every other faction in the setting on the backfoot.

Like, they've been waging war the Sidhe, the Council, and the White Court simultaneously, for years by this point... and they're somehow not dead. This group of outcasts and nobodies are somehow the most powerful group in the Setting (excluding Mab's siege forces) and they basically just *poofed* out of thin air the moment the Reds died, because "lol of course nothing can get better this is the DF"

[Mr. Death]

The Fomor haven't been "waging war on the Sidhe, the Council and the White Court."

They've been kidnapping folks and gathering resources, occasionally being attacked and driven away by one of those three. We even know that they outright avoid cities that have a wizardly presence.

The Fomor haven't, to my knowledge, staged attacks specifically on any of those nations.

They seem to have an advantage because they take initiative and they're going after soft targets. But that doesn't mean they're actively waging war on all three, or that they're a tangibly bigger threat than the Red Court.

[forumghost]

The Council has been on the backfoot fighting them all over Europe, to the point that they have effectively abandoned NA.
As we see in GS, the White Court is coordinating with the Paranet and engaging them all across the USA.

The Formor have been (without provocation) attacking everyone on a Global scale, for the last... what two+ years? It gotten so bad that the Masquerade is falling apart despite the superhuman levels of head-in-sand that Humanity has in the DF.

So yeah, somehow they're the biggest threat in the series, despite living in a vacuum.
Heck, a couple of their Redshirts Turtlenecks are dangerous enough that Harry needed to be rescued from them, whereas the Red Courts top assassin went screaming like a little girl at the sight of him- and that was before he became the Winter Knight.

I mean, they're not just a rag-tag group. They're a Nation. A Nation that is shitting all over everyone, and yet nobody has punched their ticket yet. It's as if... I dunno... Sokovia decided to start attacking every other nation in the UN, but nobody did anything about it because... reasons?

After over two years of fighting across the globe "They're going after soft targets" and "They have the initiative" is not much of an argument. Just go down to Lake Michigan and waste so fish-men already, c'mon.

[Kindler]

The Council has been on the backfoot fighting them all over Europe, to the point that they have effectively abandoned NA.
As we see in GS, the White Court is coordinating with the Paranet and engaging them all across the USA.

The Formor have been (without provocation) attacking everyone on a Global scale, for the last... what two+ years? It gotten so bad that the Masquerade is falling apart despite the superhuman levels of head-in-sand that Humanity has in the DF.

So yeah, somehow they're the biggest threat in the series, despite living in a vacuum.
Heck, a couple of their Redshirts Turtlenecks are dangerous enough that Harry needed to be rescued from them, whereas the Red Courts top assassin went screaming like a little girl at the sight of him- and that was before he became the Winter Knight.

I mean, they're not just a rag-tag group. They're a Nation. A Nation that is shitting all over everyone, and yet nobody has punched their ticket yet. It's as if... I dunno... Sokovia decided to start attacking every other nation in the UN, but nobody did anything about it because they're "just going after soft Targets"

I kind of agree with you there on some points, but the Fomor don't seem to be engaging in full on fighting with them. They're working on grabbing werewolves off the street, similar to the plot in White Night, and adding those little powers to their own.

Seems to me that they're staying mobile. In "Aftermath," they're in town for, what, two, three days? They were closing up shop and getting ready to vamoose.

Winter has been on the backfoot, so to speak, since Mab was spending most of her time keeping Harry alive, then training him to murder her daughter, then keeping watch over Molly while getting back at Nicodemus—and acquiring some apparently major artifacts for the coming fight. I expect that to change when the Peace Talks fall apart; Winter is coming back in a big way.

It's not surprising that the White Council pretty much bounced out of North America; they never really cared about it before, and only had a handful of wardens keeping an eye on it, despite having the same population as half of Europe. They don't seem to be particularly threatening to wizards in general; Ramirez was injured, as I recall, but the circumstances of that are unknown. Plus, he kind of gets injured a lot (I think he's ended every book appearance in the hospital, including Changes—he was down with whatever biological weapon was used against the Council). He's like the warden version of Jeremy Shockey.

The White Court... I don't know what it is they're doing, so I can't really comment on it. I'd assume that they're gathering intelligence with the Paranet to protect their herd. And I further assume that their attempt at resolving the situation is going to be seen in Peace Talks.

In fact, I don't think I've ever seen the White Court Vamps do anything useful in the war, except help Harry, so I don't know what it is they're doing.

Anyway, I think the Fomor are a threat because they did come out of nowhere, and nobody was prepared for the things that they can do. The White Council has to shift gears to fight a totally different kind of conflict, with a target from the sea rather than Central and South America. They likely didn't even take them seriously at first, figuring they were just some upstart nothing organization. I think they've had to reconsider the threat level they represent, even though I'm positive Cristos is busy distracting them by inciting unrest.

All that aside, I do agree with you that I don't generally like the idea of introducing a new threat totally out of left field and selling them as bigger or more dangerous than anything else. It's what Supernatural (a guilty pleasure of mine) did with the Leviathans a few years ago; even though they weren't capable of anything worse than any other monster, they were sold as more dangerous than angels, despite us having watched angels travel through freaking time on more than one occasion. They spent way too much time telling us how incredibly deadly and scary we were supposed to find them, but at most they were comically violent. This was instead of showing us what they were really capable of.

Now, I trust Jim; he wouldn't do this without a reason, and I'm convinced that the Fomor have been in the plan for a while; on the Wiki, it speculates that Nicodemus's "beasts" were provided by them, for example. We haven't really seen the Fomor interact with any of the major players on the page; I think that, once we do, my opinion of them as a threat will change.

That aside, I did find the one in Aftermath threatening (Nobody? That was his name, right?) I could see an army of him giving anyone pause.

DISCLAIMER: I haven't read Even Hand yet, so my only direct knowledge of them is Aftermath, Molly's scuffle in Ghost Story, and the Octokongs.

[Mr. Death]

Yeah, the Fomor "war" isn't like the Fomor wading up on shore and invading en masse. It's them snatching people and running away before the bigger powers can get them.

They're a "threat" not in the sense that they could take the White Council, the White Court and Winter in open fighting. They're a "threat" because they're sneaky, unscrupulous, unknown and really underhanded.

Their "big attack" in the Red Court war was a biological weapon. Humans can do that.

[Kindler]

Yeah, the Fomor "war" isn't like the Fomor wading up on shore and invading en masse. It's them snatching people and running away before the bigger powers can get them.

They're a "threat" not in the sense that they could take the White Council, the White Court and Winter in open fighting. They're a "threat" because they're sneaky, unscrupulous, unknown and really underhanded.

Their "big attack" in the Red Court war was a biological weapon. Humans can do that.

That was the Fomor? The gas attack in the backstory of Dead Beat that killed, like, a third of the wardens? Or was it something else in one of the short stories that I haven't read because I'm stubbornly waiting for Brief Cases?

[Mr. Death]

That was the Fomor? The gas attack in the backstory of Dead Beat that killed, like, a third of the wardens? Or was it something else in one of the short stories that I haven't read because I'm stubbornly waiting for Brief Cases?

I think in Bombshells it's mentioned that they supplied the gas.

[Kindler]

I think in Bombshells it's mentioned that they supplied the gas.

Ahhh. Okay, thanks. I'll take your word for it.

I'll be over here grumbling about my lack of Dresden because of my own stubbornness.

[dspringer1]

The formor have not been waging war in the accords sense.  They have not made war with any major supernatural race.  The formor have been very aggressively moving to grab mortals with supernatural powers (who do not have status under the accords), although that has put them in some conflict with the White Council which has some protective impulses over the lesser human magic types. 

In the process, they have been riling the other supernatural powers. 
*  They have clearly been pressing against White Council interests in Europe and North America. 
*  It is implied that other supernatural powers are being pressed as well, especially those who want to take territory in the former Red Court lands.  Not at the level of a war, but certainly at the level where "border incidents" and "diplomatic incidents" and "regrettable deaths of not quite formal allies" occurs
*  They have been unusually public in their pursuit, raising worries that normal humans will become aware of supernatural events
*  They have seriously offended the Svartelves (aka - as seen in Bombshells).  And the svartelves were worried about the Formor actions before these events occurred - which was why the agreement with the Formor was originally planned. 
*  They clearly care little for the accords
*  Winter is clearly seeing them as a threat and working to contain that threat (also seen in bombshells)

[RobReece]

Well, we know that Mab is going to be looking to take them down a notch, they were attempting to violate her Accords with their backstabbing actions in 'Bombshells'.

[dspringer1]

Well, we know that Mab is going to be looking to take them down a notch, they were attempting to violate her Accords with their backstabbing actions in 'Bombshells'.

I think you are misreading the situation.   Mab is going to take down the Formor because she believes they are working with the Outsiders.   However, Mab is constrained in her actions.  If she can get the formor to actually violate the accords, then she can directly act against them.  Right now she is limited to indirect action like that of Leah in Bombshells. 

Do not get me wrong.  Mab will defend the accords in any case.  All I am saying is that Mab had very good reasons to take down the Formor well before any accord violation takes place.   She is actively looking for an excuse to act. 

[Vorrobblev]

Cronos, he has pent the last 3 years torturing us.