Poll

Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?

Mavra
33 (24.3%)
Cowl
25 (18.4%)
Kumori
11 (8.1%)
Lara Raith
37 (27.2%)
Lord Raith
23 (16.9%)
The Eebs
7 (5.1%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Author Topic: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?  (Read 36848 times)

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2017, 01:26:45 PM »
Let's not carry the Murphy and the broken sword debate here please. On a lighter note, are there any other villians whose return would make Harry's day alot worse?
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Offline DonBugen

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2017, 01:50:02 PM »
Honestly?  I feel like Peace Talks is where we'll see Arthur Langtry return as a villain and pull his best play yet.  And I mention him as a long-absent villain specifically because it's been a while since he's really acted as a villain; not since Proven Guilty.  He's been a reluctant ally in Proven Guilty, and in Changes we saw him at least with his guns pointed away from Harry and toward the right enemy.  But I don't think that he would be thrilled at all with Resurrected, Fae-influenced, authority-snubbing Dresden.  If the Merlin ever wants Dresden to be off the White Council and comfortably six feet under, this is the time to do it.  And Jim's already stated that to the Council, the threat level really doesn't go any higher than where Harry's at right now.

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2017, 02:04:53 PM »
See, I've always had the opposite read of Langtry. I think he's there to look like an obfuscating, stubborn authority figure for Harry to rail against -- helped by the fact that in the earlier bits of the series, he genuinely is -- but for Harry to eventually find an ally in.

Harry's come a long way since he first met Langtry, and I think between Turn Coat and Changes, they understand each other a little more. Granted, this is complicated by the outright hostility of their last encounter, but the Merlin has to see the power and influence that Harry is gaining over the White Council.

I'm not sure Langtry can afford to get rid of Dresden; he has Ebenezer and the Gatekeeper as clear allies, and he's friendly with Martha Liberty and Listens to Wind. He's in with the leadership of the Wardens and could be considered a war hero. He's also a symbol to the younger set among the Council who, thanks to the War, are up and coming faster than Langtry probably likes.

And that's not even mentioning the connection with Winter.

While it's certainly true that Langtry doesn't like Dresden, and is wary of what he might become, I think Langtry may well be willing to play ball with him and make him an ally, if only to "keep his enemies close" and to make use of Harry's influence. You'd have to weigh what Langtry stands to gain by getting rid of Dresden versus what he stands to gain by making him an ally. As things stand, I think Langtry would see more benefit with the latter.

Their interactions in Turn Coat are pretty instructive, I think -- Langtry sure as hell doesn't like Dresden there, but he recognizes his talents and abilities and moves to use them the best he can. And at the trial, he not only catches on to Dresden's plan well enough to add his own theatrical spin, but when shit hits fan, it's Dresden specifically that he tasks with apprehending Peabody.

Of course, I give it 50-50 Harry throws any attempt by Langtry to ally with him back in his face and pisses him off anyway, but I suppose we'll see.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 02:07:31 PM by Mr. Death »
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Offline DonBugen

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2017, 03:09:50 PM »
Mold demons.

Mark my words, more mold demons.

Offline Kindler

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2017, 04:02:45 PM »
Rudolph will return, trying to kill Harry and Murphy after the events of Changes ruined his life and he barely skated on corruption charges. His criminal defense was funded by Larry Fowler, who will also appear, leading a mass media campaign for Harry's arrest, pending charges of domestic terrorism.


Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2017, 11:49:45 PM »
Rudolph annoyed the crap out of me. I hope the next time we see him is in a padded cell with a straitjacket. As far as Langtry goes, I see him as a reluctant supporter of Harry due to Harry's actions in Changes and his ties to Mab.
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Offline Kindler

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2017, 01:38:54 PM »
Rudolph annoyed the crap out of me. I hope the next time we see him is in a padded cell with a straitjacket. As far as Langtry goes, I see him as a reluctant supporter of Harry due to Harry's actions in Changes and his ties to Mab.

Oh yeah, me too. I was mostly joking, though I do think Rudolph might show up. It was only a minor consolation that Rudolph got screwed over every time he showed up. I still don't get what was behind his extreme character derailment after Fool Moon. He was too stupid for it to be Nemesis, at least directly.

I'm with you on Langtry. I don't see him as directly antagonistic toward Harry. In my opinion, his actions are motivated by The Greater Good. He was trying to avoid a war, and trading one wizard's life is worth it—I couldn't say that I wouldn't try to do the same in his position. It's also worth noting that we haven't really seen him much since Peabody's ink has left his system. The one time we did, he was far, FAR more ready to throw down with the Reds than he had been, and might have been willing to support Harry's attack if the White Council wasn't crippled by Cristos later on.

He'll probably still be pissed at Harry for creating such a huge power vacuum after Changes, and he'll likely be annoyed that Harry is beyond his reach now that he's the Winter Knight. If he also knows that he's the Warden, I think he'll have a minor heart attack, just at the thought of so much power being in one person's hands.

To be honest, the highlight for me won't be returning villains, it'll be seeing most (if not all) of the people we haven't for several books.

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2017, 08:48:52 PM »
He'll probably still be pissed at Harry for creating such a huge power vacuum after Changes, and he'll likely be annoyed that Harry is beyond his reach now that he's the Winter Knight. If he also knows that he's the Warden, I think he'll have a minor heart attack, just at the thought of so much power being in one person's hands.

He knows. Ebenezar's journal entry at the end of TC mentioned the Merlin wanting to put Harry under surveillance, whereas Eb thinks Harry is one of the few he would trust with "that mantle".

As for the power vaccuum, I'm sure he's not happy about it, but it's not like he can really pin much blame on Harry when he outright told him the goal was to exterminate the Reds. Well, mission accomplished.

Offline RobReece

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2017, 09:22:09 PM »
I really do understand what you are saying.

That being said, I believe that the 16-year old love IS true.  It may not be mature, but it is true.  Yes it is at times wrapped up with a bit of hormones and selfishness, but it's also very strongly felt and THEY think it's true.

A lot of magic is dependent upon belief.  No real reason this couldn't work based on belief as well.

Magic has a lot to do with emotions, and I think that young love is similarly wrapped up in emotions and passion along with the hormones.  And a lot of the time, the young are in love with the 'idea' of being in love.  But I think that True Love is deeper than just the emotions and the passion.  There's no doubt that Harry and Karrin love each other, their willingness to kill or be killed for the other shows that quite readily, the question should be whether or not their love has evolved into a romantic, 'committed' love that would protect them from the WCV's.  Personally, based on the end of SG, I'd say yes.

Offline forumghost

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2017, 01:05:49 AM »
He knows. Ebenezar's journal entry at the end of TC mentioned the Merlin wanting to put Harry under surveillance, whereas Eb thinks Harry is one of the few he would trust with "that mantle".

As for the power vaccuum, I'm sure he's not happy about it, but it's not like he can really pin much blame on Harry when he outright told him the goal was to exterminate the Reds. Well, mission accomplished.

I dunno, I reckon you'd be surprised by exactly how much people can blame Harry for.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2017, 09:57:39 AM »
Harry really does not need others blaming him for stuff; he does enough of that on his own.
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Offline namkcas

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2017, 03:43:50 PM »
Going through each candidate listed:

1 - Cowl/Kumori under their Black Council roles are not members of the Accords.  As this looks to be held under the Accords, they have no seat at the table.

2 - The Raiths are not really absent.  They had a role in Cold Days, though Thomas was the only member "on screen".  Lara specifically participated.  Lord Raith is unlikely to travel to a meeting when Lara can represent him.

3 - Mavra is a possibility, but I don't see her gain in being in a place where lots of folks would want her eliminated.

4 - The Eebs have 2 problems.  First, they may not be alive.  If the Blood Curse did not get them, the Erlking's folk might have.  Second, it assumes that they are well and released by the Erlking.  Given that they violated his territory (and their Guest Rite) and his stated use for them was to entertain his followers, not sure why they would let them go if they are alive.

Offline Rasins

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2017, 04:04:29 PM »
I'm ambivalent on the subject of the Ebs.  If they do still exist, I hope there is a good (Doyalistic) reason for it.
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Offline DonBugen

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2017, 06:17:48 PM »
Slightly off-topic, but if Vince Graver is ever going to show his face again, this would be the book to do it.  What better time to use a smart vanilla mortal PI than when there's a bunch of supernatural maniacs around which you need to spy on, that would see him as nothing more than background noise?  Besides, Harry can kind of afford to hire him for a few days now.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?
« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2017, 06:26:28 PM »
not sure why they would let them go if they are alive.
I'm ambivalent on the subject of the Ebs.  If they do still exist, I hope there is a good (Doyalistic) reason for it.
Two good reasons they left, assuming they survived the curse.
1) The Erlking didn't want to exterminate a hunter species, no matter how worthless the Eebs might have been.
2) A Nemesis agent in the Erlking's Court secretly expedited their release as potential allies to the cause.