Small Favor: Why Mab got involved in the first place

[Rasins]

I'm of the opinion that Mab got involved in Small Favor to push Harry toward DemonReach, to become the Warden there.  I think she knows they'll need some of the inmates in the BAT coming

[wardenferry419]

Mab was doing what she always does. She takes a problem and makes it an opportunity to solve other problems.

[Rasins]

Mab was doing what she always does. She takes a problem and makes it an opportunity to solve other problems.

Exactly

[Rhetoric]

I'd just like to point out that "Bombshells" saw Winter move to stop the Fomor from making a treaty with the svartalves... in an event that also just so happened to help save Marcone from an assassination attempt.

[Rasins]

I'd just like to point out that "Bombshells" saw Winter move to stop the Fomor from making a treaty with the svartalves... in an event that also just so happened to help save Marcone from an assassination attempt.

Winter?

And I think the Svartalves would have immediately broken the treaty due to the insult offered by the Fomor.

[Firestarter]

*chuckles*
[OT]
It's always funny to see the names Maeve and Mab.
"Maeve" is the pronounced form of the name. "Medb"/"Medhbh" is the written form. It's an old Irish name meaning "She, who intoxicates."/"Intoxicating" I was thinking of using it as my daughter's middle name, if I ever have one.

"Mab" is the written form of the name. "Maav" is the pronounced - very close to how James Marsters pronounces Maeve's name as Lloyd Slate in Summer Knight. The name means "Lovable", which I personally think Mab is.
[/OT]

I do think that Mab knows for a fact that Maeve is infected at this point; she's speaking entirely through Cait Sith, for the first time (as far as I recall;

Mab is speaking through Grimalkin. Harry meets Cait Sith in Cold Days for the first time.

It's always been a bit of a mystery why Mab tried to save Marcone in Small Favor, even before he was actually attacked to boot, and I think I might have an explanation that's both logical and doesn't give Mr. Occam too much headache.

Breaking Unseelie Accords' rules of engagement is basically throwing the bird to Mab. It's an insult to her personally and an insult to her office. As we have learned in Cold Days, she can swallow her pride as long as there are no witnesses, but if there are witnesses, she won't let such an insult stand.

I suppose that conversation Ivy had with Mab was somewhat awkward.

Mab: "There was a high risk of the Archive being taken over by outsiders."
Ivy: "Your counteractions were perfectly adequate, given the risk."
Mab: "I was certain that you would understand. I'm delighted that Dresden made it in time."
- The End -

Although, yes, we might consider Hobbs' attack as a play by Maeve. This part never get's properly explained. Ivy suspects that Harry was using the Hobbs. So since they don't have the emblem of the person who sent them branded on their foreheads, we can speculate. This actually might be a similar play as we've seen later in Turn Coat where the Outsiders/Black Council were using two agencies who sort-of got into each others' way. But in that case the Hobbs weren't sent to kill the Archive but to abduct her. This would make the plot a bit thicker.

There are no indications of actions prior to snowball fight at the Carpenter House, so it is very difficult to speculate. At least I'm not aware of any. "Heorot" features Gard + Dresden action [ interpret that however you will >.> ] making it more likely, that Gard will  trust and ask Dresden for help in Small Favor. "It’s My Birthday Too" can't be connected to Small Favor from what I remember.

It's possible, that the prequel to this will play out in the short story Mr. Butcher has planned with Hendricks PoV.

Mab has been trying to woo Harry into taking the place of Lloyd Slate as Winter Knight
...
She is a Grand Chessmaster at playing people against each other.
...
John Marcone is a heavy hitter in the mortal world, with enough influence to affect some of Mab's plans. She would have kept tabs on him, his friends, and his enemies.
...
Mab understands the love hate / hate relationship between Harry Dresden and John Marcone. She has been using these dynamics to get what she wants out of both of them.
...

Well... here I'd be more thinking in terms:
Mab jumping in for the Leanansidhe while Lea is a Sidhe-cicle.
Leanansidhe training Margaret Katherine Amanda Carpenter [ so why is she Molly and not another Maggie? ] in Harry's stead.

Just as Mab is shaping Dresden; she had to prepare a stand-in protector of Chicago once she manages to talk Dresden into accepting the Winter Knight mantle, since his duties as Winter Knight would somewhat limit the time he is in Chicago. We know that while Marcone is a mobster he also has rules.

Here it is very difficult to find out what the actual conflict between Summer and Winter was. We just know, that it played out in Marcone's kidnapping to which Ivy's kidnapping got added later as Nicodemus' version of a DLC.

Here we should consider Titania working together with the Denarians. Motives as of yet unknown.

[Rhetoric]

Winter?

Well, Leanansidhe.

And I think the Svartalves would have immediately broken the treaty due to the insult offered by the Fomor.

None of Leanansidhe, Lara Raith, or "Lord Froggy" seemed to think so, the formor two sending agents to stop the signing itself, while the latter feeling secure in murdering all the Svartalves' guests after the fact (though admittedly, Froggy completely underestimated how upset Etri would be). Still, even if the treaty was doomed to fail from the start, it only makes it all the more suspicious that Molly would have been sent to stop it. Lara would have plenty of motive to stop whatever shenanigans the Fomor were up to in her city, but Lea...?

Actually, now I wonder if Marcone had attended the signing on purpose to bait the Fomor into planning an attack. If he hadn't been there, the signing would have been smooth sailing, no? Making it all the more difficult for Thomas or Molly to interfere...

And while I'm at it, I'll just throw another quote out from Small Favor...

“Come on, Harry,” Thomas said. “You can’t really think that Mab’s motives and plans are that direct, that cut-and-dried.” He adjusted the setting of the Hummer’s wipers. “She wants Marcone for a reason. You might not be doing him any favors by saving him on Mab’s behalf.”

Does this imply Marcone became indebted to Mab in some capacity after SF?

[Rasins]

Well, Leanansidhe.

Good point

None of Leanansidhe, Lara Raith, or "Lord Froggy" seemed to think so, the formor two sending agents to stop the signing itself, while the latter feeling secure in murdering all the Svartalves' guests after the fact (though admittedly, Froggy completely underestimated how upset Etri would be). Still, even if the treaty was doomed to fail from the start, it only makes it all the more suspicious that Molly would have been sent to stop it. Lara would have plenty of motive to stop whatever shenanigans the Fomor were up to in her city, but Lea...?

I understand, but seeing as how they treated and reacted to Molly's actions, I still believe they would have done everything they could have to have broken it.

Actually, now I wonder if Marcone had attended the signing on purpose to bait the Fomor into planning an attack. If he hadn't been there, the signing would have been smooth sailing, no? Making it all the more difficult for Thomas or Molly to interfere...

And while I'm at it, I'll just throw another quote out from Small Favor...

Does this imply Marcone became indebted to Mab in some capacity after SF?

I'm not sure someone can be forced to accept a debt like that when not asked for aid. On the other hand, Gard and Hendricks incurred debt to Harry for asking, and Marcone WOULD take that on, I believe.

[Thugorp]

\
Here comes Maeve's most likely move (imho): Catching the Archive at the train station (or maybe at the place she intended to stay) before Nicodemus could lay his hands on her.

Mab figured it out just in time. She realized that she had made a mistake in assuming that Marcone was the (primary) target Nemesis/her daughter was after. In a desperate attempt to prevent that, she sent the Hobbs, taking the risk that they killed the current host of the Archive. The Archive would have gone to the next person in line and been safe from Nemfection.

Harry (with Uriel's help) did the rest.

I suppose that conversation Ivy had with Mab was somewhat awkward.

Ummm.... Who next in line? The, "Archive," is passed down mother to daughter. What's more, it is passed down from mother to daughter during the birth of the daughter(Darkness style), leaving the last archive an empty vessel. This is why Ive's mother is in a, "persistent vegetative state," and why Ive, "knows everything my mother was, and what she thought about me." ... In other words, if Ive had died, it would have been the end of the archive forever, because there would be no one for, "the archive," to progress into.

[Phariah]

I see it as he is a member of the Accords, she has a need for Marcone in the future war I am guessing, she needed to show she still was in control and it was a major move by Nemesis and it needed to be countered by throwing the human, mystical, cosmic, monkey wrench..... Harry Dresden into the mix.

[raidem]

Mab understands the love hate / hate relationship between Harry Dresden and John Marcone.

I still like to believe there is some father son relationship going on with a temporal spin on things in the mix.  Harry and Murphy(Mab) has a child that becomes one John Marcone.  Or at least in some way Harry and John Marcone are closely related. 

Stormfront and Dresden Files series begins with Son paying tribute to father.

For Debbie Chester, who taught me everything I really needed to know about writing. And for my father, who taught me everything I really needed to know about living.
I miss you dad.

This is then followed closely by multiple 'father' references during the Harry/Marcone encounter.

Godfather reference=Gangster, crime bosses

Marcone seemed somewhat put off by my attitude. Maybe I was supposed to be holding my hat in my hand, but I had never really liked Francis Ford Coppola, and I didn't have a Godfather. (I do have a Godmother, and she is, inevitably perhaps, a faery. But that's another story.)

Grandfather reference

He wrinkled up his face as if carefully considering what he would say, and taking my well-being into account with grandfatherly concern. "How much would it set me back to have you not investigate something?"

Father reference

"All right, then," he said, smoothly, and as though nothing had happened. "I won't try to force my offer on you, Mister Dresden." The car was slowing down as it approached my building, and Hendricks pulled over in front of it. "But let me offer you some advice?"
He had dropped the father-talking-to-son act, and spoke in a calm and patient voice.

I've spinned this post off to another thread of its own.

[Rasins]

Ummm.... Who next in line? The, "Archive," is passed down mother to daughter. What's more, it is passed down from mother to daughter during the birth of the daughter(Darkness style), leaving the last archive an empty vessel. This is why Ive's mother is in a, "persistent vegetative state," and why Ive, "knows everything my mother was, and what she thought about me." ... In other words, if Ive had died, it would have been the end of the archive forever, because there would be no one for, "the archive," to progress into.

That's not how it was explained in the books.  Ivy was a bit of an anomaly.  Her mother didn't want to take on the Archive so attempted suicide.  Usually they have a lifetime to build up their own personality and memories that help shield them from the memories of all the others.  Ivy doesn't have that buffer.  Thus the worry that Luccio stated.

[Second Aristh]

Ah, kk, Im with you now. 

I dont know, it feels like a simpler explanation that it was Maeve behind the Hobs (ie Awfully Gauche) and was working counter to Mab interests (in general or for something specific we've not seen), who in turn didnt fully explain to Harry because she didnt want dissension in the ranks to be known.  This was the novel she first had to start talking through Grimalkin, so she's aware of Maeve's Nemfection.

Maeve as the one behind the Hobbs attack doesn't sit right with me.  They didn't pose a serious threat to Ivy at all, so it had to be about sending a message, perhaps one that could not be easily sent in another way.  Mab sending a warning to Ivy to be careful seems most likely at this point.

[jonas]

Maeve as the one behind the Hobbs attack doesn't sit right with me.  They didn't pose a serious threat to Ivy at all, so it had to be about sending a message, perhaps one that could not be easily sent in another way.  Mab sending a warning to Ivy to be careful seems most likely at this point.

Yea she all but says the Archive in Nemesis's hands was not acceptable, she of course uses 'enemy' and I remember the old convo's on it before we knew of N.