Why Attack Arctus Tor?

[jonas]

It is actually in changes:

Context implied in the greater page?

"For what reason have you detained her?"
"Because I do not tolerate challenges to my authority,"... "Certain event's had convinced your Godmother she was no longer bound by my word and will..."

Guess Mab's a liar now unless we can agree it's far most likely that she did both, confronted Mab and like Sith tried to, managed to break free enough to let her own desire, felt through shame be known.

[Arjan]

Context implied in the greater page? Guess Mab's a liar now unless we can agree it's far most likely that she did both, confronted Mab and like Sith tried to, managed to break free enough to let her own desire, felt through shame be known.

Mab did not say who challenged her authority 

From Proven Guilty:

“Lea,” I said. “What has happened to you? How long have you been a Sidhe-sicle?”
Some of the strength seemed to ebb from her, and she suddenly seemed exhausted. “I grew too
arrogant with the power I held. I thought I could overcome what stalks us all. Foolish. Milady Queen Mab taught me the error of my ways.”
“She’s had you locked up in your own private iceberg for more than a year?” I shook my head. “Godmother, you look like you fell out of a crazy tree and hit every branch on the way down.”

With hindsight I translate "What stalks us all" as Nemesis. Lea tried to overcome it herself but failed. Ashamed she went to her queen.

[jonas]

Mab did not say who challenged her authority 

From Proven Guilty:With hindsight I translate "What stalks us all" as Nemesis. Lea tried to overcome it herself but failed. Ashamed she went to her queen.

No, it says she thought she didn't have to answer to her, that's challenging authority, trust me, I know. nice theory though, look it even has a premise to base an inference

[KurtinStGeorge]

A long time ago I posted there was another reason Maeve may have been willing to help Lily with her plan.  It's possible Maeve didn't expect Harry to survive his second encounter with Eldest Fetch.  She may have felt that that working with Lily was enough to start gaining Lily's trust even if Harry died in the attempt.  After all, Lily knew she was gambling with Harry and his companions lives when she gave him access to Summer Fire without telling him about it.  Plus, we have no way of knowing if Lily told Maeve she was giving Harry access to Summer Fire.  If Maeve wasn't given that information she might not have given Harry much of a chance to succeed.  However, when Harry did win through Maeve was forced to carry out the rest plan and slow the flow of time around Arctis Tor, otherwise her plan to subvert Lily would have died right then and there. 

[Arjan]

No, it says she thought she didn't have to answer to her, that's challenging authority, trust me, I know. nice theory though, look it even has a premise to base an inference

I tend to give more weight to Lea's words here because Lea is Harry's godmother and has less to hide and more to teach and very important her words are less ambivalent.

By not naming who did challenge her authority she left it to Harry to make assumptions and that is always dangerous. The first assumption might very well be the wrong one.

[Griffyn612]

I have no doubt Mab was referring to Lea when she said "she" challenged her authority.  But a challenge to Mab's authority does not require open rebellion.  Lea attempting to act without Mab's consent is a challenge of her authority.  Lea acting in Mab's interest in a way Mab wouldn't approve of is a challenge of her authority.

The text tells us Lea tried to do something against an enemy too powerful for her, she turned herself in to Mab, and Mab helped heal her while reasserting her authority over such things.

[Arjan]

Man wants to show Harry her strength not her weaknesses. She is not going to tel him "My handmaiden is ill and I am trying to cure her"

So she said something that suggests something else.

[Rasins]

Considering Leah's manic behavior while in Winter's wellspring, I can totally see her actively challenging Mab's authority, then realizing she can't control her Nemfection asking Mab to help cure her.

[Froklsnt]

I have no doubt Mab was referring to Lea when she said "she" challenged her authority.  But a challenge to Mab's authority does not require open rebellion.  Lea attempting to act without Mab's consent is a challenge of her authority.  Lea acting in Mab's interest in a way Mab wouldn't approve of is a challenge of her authority.

The text tells us Lea tried to do something against an enemy too powerful for her, she turned herself in to Mab, and Mab helped heal her while reasserting her authority over such things.

I think Griffyn612 has the right idea. What I want to think about further is what Arjan brought up, what did Lea mean by "what stalks us all."

With hindsight I translate "What stalks us all" as Nemesis. Lea tried to overcome it herself but failed. Ashamed she went to her queen.

This reading makes sense to me, and strikes me as the most obvious interpretation. Lea tried to struggle against Nemesis on her own, but was unable to win the fight without help. But the struggle alone doesn't seem like the offense that Mab spoke of in Changes. So what was the action that Nemesis was attempting to cause Lea to perform? A simple, small action of verbal challenge, a simple questioning of Mab's orders would probably be enough to fit the bill, that's most likely.

But what if we think bigger? What if "I thought I could overcome what stalks us all" refers to death? That phrase is certainly a common motif of death. And the goal of vanquishing death is already held by Cowl (according to Kumori anyway), who provided the athame to Lea via Bianca. Lea would be in a position to potentially make some type of move against Mother Winter, who is the closest personification of "death" in the DV so far. And that would certainly qualify as a challenges to Mab's authority, an action against Mab's word and will. If Lea recovered herself and broke down in shame before she actually took an action, then everything fits.

[Arjan]

I think Griffyn612 has the right idea. What I want to think about further is what Arjan brought up, what did Lea mean by "what stalks us all."

This reading makes sense to me, and strikes me as the most obvious interpretation. Lea tried to struggle against Nemesis on her own, but was unable to win the fight without help. But the struggle alone doesn't seem like the offense that Mab spoke of in Changes. So what was the action that Nemesis was attempting to cause Lea to perform? A simple, small action of verbal challenge, a simple questioning of Mab's orders would probably be enough to fit the bill, that's most likely.

But what if we think bigger? What if "I thought I could overcome what stalks us all" refers to death? That phrase is certainly a common motif of death. And the goal of vanquishing death is already held by Cowl (according to Kumori anyway), who provided the athame to Lea via Bianca. Lea would be in a position to potentially make some type of move against Mother Winter, who is the closest personification of "death" in the DV so far. And that would certainly qualify as a challenges to Mab's authority, an action against Mab's word and will. If Lea recovered herself and broke down in shame before she actually took an action, then everything fits.

You can make a distinction between what Lea did on her own and what Lea did under influence of Nemesis but one does not have to. Everything Lea did under influence of Nemesis she still did and some of that was a chalenge of Mab's authority.

[Froklsnt]

You can make a distinction between what Lea did on her own and what Lea did under influence of Nemesis but one does not have to. Everything Lea did under influence of Nemesis she still did and some of that was a chalenge of Mab's authority.

I agree, it remains unclear how much being Nfected is an usurpation of a being's will versus a more subtle influence on one's thoughts and actions. Though, by Mr. Sunshine's rules, both are equally problematic.

[raidem]

I don't think lea was referring to death, at least in the natural sense.  It is very much part of this world, this reality.

The outsiders, per woj, come from a universe or reality outside of our own and it is the existence and/or expansion of our universe that is causing their reality problems.  So to solve it, they got to sabotage ours.  To me the ultimate danger that stalks us is an attempt by outsiders to destroy our reality.  Somehow, someway lea thought she could do something on some minute level.

We also have Woj that mab truly believed she did the best thing in placing lea within winter's well.  The Woj sounded kinda ominous in that there will be some unintended consequence to this act.

[Griffyn612]

I don't think lea was referring to death, at least in the natural sense.  It is very much part of this world, this reality.

The outsiders, per woj, come from a universe or reality outside of our own and it is the existence and/or expansion of our universe that is causing their reality problems.  So to solve it, they got to sabotage ours.  To me the ultimate danger that stalks us is an attempt by outsiders to destroy our reality.  Somehow, someway lea thought she could do something on some minute level.

We also have Woj that mab truly believed she did the best thing in placing lea within winter's well.  The Woj sounded kinda ominous in that there will be some unintended consequence to this act.

The most likely identities for "that which stalks us all" are death, time, Nemesis, the persistent threat from the Outsiders, or a cycle of inescapable events (inevitability).

Considering that all of those could be combined into one, I'd say it's all of them.  Nemesis and the rest of the Outsiders present a persistent and inevitable threat to life itself.

In other words, The End.

[jonas]

The most likely identities for "that which stalks us all" are death, time, Nemesis, the persistent threat from the Outsiders, or a cycle of inescapable events (inevitability).

I like you

Considering that all of those could be combined into one, I'd say it's all of them.  Nemesis and the rest of the Outsiders present a persistent and inevitable threat to life itself.

In other words, The End.

I prefer to stick to Nemesis as The Accuser, Enemy. She's out to judge life except were that judgement has been superseded by judgement from an afterlife or associated diety.

[wardenferry419]

The most likely identities for "that which stalks us all" are death, time, Nemesis, the persistent threat from the Outsiders, or a cycle of inescapable events (inevitability).

Considering that all of those could be combined into one, I'd say it's all of them.  Nemesis and the rest of the Outsiders present a persistent and inevitable threat to life itself.

In other words, The End.

Could Love be considered as one other option of "that which stalks us all." For a creature like Lea, it is both ally and enemy.