Author Topic: Why Attack Arctus Tor?  (Read 18007 times)

Offline Kindler

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1139
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2017, 06:41:11 PM »
She may have felt Titania was infected, but that does not explain why she piled everyone in winter on the border of summer.   That action effectively prevented either from participating in the fighting. 

Mab could have achieved the same objective by having summer and winter bring equal forces to the battlefield while still keeping back a substantial force to defend winter.   Winter is still protected from betrayal by summer, but she also targets the red court which attacked her borders -- and is clearly allied with outsiders.    Yet she did not do this.  She had some clear reason to keep summer and winter out of the fighting.  A reason important enough that she was willing to let the white council fall. 

Yet this compelling reason did not prevent her from standing by while Dresden brough summer fire to the heart of winter.  No way that little butterfly of summer power was missed by Mab.    Which had a huge effect on her borders. 

Which means she
a) was testing summer's reaction
b) was compelled to do what she did (block summer and winter from going to war) by some promise or debt. 
c) she was testing Maeve

"a" is a pretty weak reason as it is a pretty unreliable test.  Even if summer attacked winter in full force, it would not accomplish much.  So a corrupted winter would do little.   "C" is a possibility especially as Small Favor was after this attack, but what about Maeve's behavior would reveal she was infected to Mab.  After all, if Mab was insane, then Maeve's actions would have been loyal to Winter. 

B is the easiest explanation - but that is still a pretty big favor.

Not trying to shore up my failing hypothesis here, but what if it was also about the White Council traitor? At the end of the book, Ebenezer points out that the Reds were able to hit the White Council (coinciding right around the attack on Arctis Tor) at their Baby Warden camp, presumably through the NeverNever. He mentions that only a handful of people knew where it was. It might've been motivated by an attempt to narrow down the suspect pool, or confirm an existing one, and could've been part of an agreement between Mab and the Gatekeeper.

Note, it's only that Ebenezer fails to consider the paperwork that Peabody wasn't on the list; he clearly did know everything, he was just beneath notice, like an evil Ehren.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 06:42:48 PM by Kindler »

Offline jonas

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1258
  • Surpassed Ms. Duck
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2017, 11:18:45 PM »
We cannot forget that Time was messed with during this period.

We suspect Maeve of doing so, but don't know for sure.

Personally, I think Maeve Sped up time in and around AT for the battle.  By the time Harry and his invaders arrived, time was flowing normally.  When Harry and team were leaving, Maeve had to  slow it down again, to make up and bring balance back in the time-stream. 

Now why was AT attacked, I like the theory of releasing Leah before she spilled about Nemfecting Maeve, but really, I don't think we have enough information yet to really guess.
The only idea I ever thought of was after Nic mentioned survival instincts in SmF, it wanted to survive Lea, and to escape becoming a permanent icesicle in the garden. It was an assault to facilitate an escape measure for a captured vip?
Of course I wonder about the time travel thingy in many wag's, but what I really wonder is if Mab knew Maeve was infected because MAB is the one who slowed time after winter withdrew to thwart N in the red court war. which she previously was direly insulted by them but for some reason unable to reply directly in DB, so it has a measure of balancing the scales to allow them to be attacked(plus they had outsiders, totally in her line of responsibility). So she thwarts N and it gets back to her Maeve is claiming credit instead.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 11:23:07 PM by jonas »
Quote from: A. Lanning
I'm sorry, My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.
Quote from: C Chaplin
...And so as long as men die, Liberty will never perish.

Offline Rasins

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 12188
  • Aid the younger and weaker.
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2017, 04:02:39 PM »
It makes more sense for Maeve to have messed with time, this being the first major clue (that we know of) that Maeve was Nemfected, from Mab's perspective.
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

DV Rasins 2006 BK+++ RP++ JB++++ TH++++ WG+(+?) CL SW++ BC- MC---

Offline jonas

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1258
  • Surpassed Ms. Duck
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2017, 07:50:29 PM »
It makes more sense for Maeve to have messed with time, this being the first major clue (that we know of) that Maeve was Nemfected, from Mab's perspective.
Only thinking about what slowing time actually achieved against the reds and their outsider allies, I'm not sure why that would make Maeve suspect? Mab and Aurora seem to understand both must move in tandem and how to manipulate that fact for more indirect attacks on their mutual enemies. Where as Maeve is bungling in the dark most, if not all of the time. To put it bluntly, it was too good of a move on the board for it to be her idea.
Quote from: A. Lanning
I'm sorry, My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.
Quote from: C Chaplin
...And so as long as men die, Liberty will never perish.

Offline Rasins

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 12188
  • Aid the younger and weaker.
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2017, 12:58:34 AM »
Only thinking about what slowing time actually achieved against the reds and their outsider allies, I'm not sure why that would make Maeve suspect? Mab and Aurora seem to understand both must move in tandem and how to manipulate that fact for more indirect attacks on their mutual enemies. Where as Maeve is bungling in the dark most, if not all of the time. To put it bluntly, it was too good of a move on the board for it to be her idea.

But not for Nemesis.
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

DV Rasins 2006 BK+++ RP++ JB++++ TH++++ WG+(+?) CL SW++ BC- MC---

Offline jonas

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1258
  • Surpassed Ms. Duck
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2017, 02:10:45 AM »
But not for Nemesis.
It harmed N far more than helped either way, if Mab did it she one upped N, If maeve did it then that's what caught Mab's attention from maeve, working time against her in correlation with summer forces.
Quote from: A. Lanning
I'm sorry, My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.
Quote from: C Chaplin
...And so as long as men die, Liberty will never perish.

Offline Rasins

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 12188
  • Aid the younger and weaker.
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2017, 02:26:04 AM »
It harmed N far more than helped either way, if Mab did it she one upped N, If maeve did it then that's what caught Mab's attention from maeve, working time against her in correlation with summer forces.

Absolutely.  Meaning that Nemesis made an error.
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

DV Rasins 2006 BK+++ RP++ JB++++ TH++++ WG+(+?) CL SW++ BC- MC---

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2017, 05:27:59 AM »
Absolutely.  Meaning that Nemesis made an error.
Which did not matter that much because if Lea would tell Mab anyway if Nemesis did not get her out. This was a last desperate attempt to keep her main asset hidden and it failed.

Lea running to Mab was a gamechanger.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 05:32:25 AM by Arjan »
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline jonas

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1258
  • Surpassed Ms. Duck
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2017, 04:25:21 PM »
Which did not matter that much because if Lea would tell Mab anyway if Nemesis did not get her out. This was a last desperate attempt to keep her main asset hidden and it failed.

Lea running to Mab was a gamechanger.
Lea didn't run to Mab, she attempted to overthrow her.
Quote from: A. Lanning
I'm sorry, My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.
Quote from: C Chaplin
...And so as long as men die, Liberty will never perish.

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11725
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2017, 04:50:53 PM »
Lea didn't run to Mab, she attempted to overthrow her.
Somewhere it's said that Lea turned herself in to Mab. 

Offline jonas

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1258
  • Surpassed Ms. Duck
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2017, 04:54:13 PM »
Somewhere it's said that Lea turned herself in to Mab.
Mmm? Going purely off of what Mab says in DB and Lea says when Harry see's her next(in CH?) it's heavily implied that Lea confronted Mab with the intention of defying her outright.
Quote from: A. Lanning
I'm sorry, My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.
Quote from: C Chaplin
...And so as long as men die, Liberty will never perish.

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11725
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2017, 04:58:23 PM »
Mmm? Going purely off of what Mab says in DB and Lea says when Harry see's her next(in CH?) it's heavily implied that Lea confronted Mab with the intention of defying her outright.
That's one interpretation.  Another is that Lea sought to circumnavigate the normal chain of command, thus inadvertently offending Mab and challenging her authority.

But somewhere, in one of the books or in a WoJ, it's said that she turned herself over to Mab to be healed.

Offline jonas

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1258
  • Surpassed Ms. Duck
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2017, 05:00:11 PM »
That's one interpretation.  Another is that Lea sought to circumnavigate the normal chain of command, thus inadvertently offending Mab and challenging her authority.

But somewhere, in one of the books or in a WoJ, it's said that she turned herself over to Mab to be healed.
Would have to be a woj.
Quote from: A. Lanning
I'm sorry, My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.
Quote from: C Chaplin
...And so as long as men die, Liberty will never perish.

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11725
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2017, 05:36:15 PM »
Would have to be a woj.
I'm 80% certain it's in one of the books, but I don't know which one.  I had trouble finding it previously, but others have done so.

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Why Attack Arctus Tor?
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2017, 06:01:41 PM »
It is actually in changes:

Quote
Susan arched an eyebrow and looked from me to my godmother. "You have no shame about it at all, do you?"
"Shame, child, is for those who fail to live up to the ideal of what they believe they should
be." She waved her hand. "It was shame that drove me to my queen, to beseech her aid." Her long, delicate fingers idly moved to the streaks of white in her otherwise flawless red tresses.

"But she showed me the way back to myself, through exquisite pain, and now I am here to
watch over my dear godson--and the rest of you, as long as it is quite convenient."
"Spooky death Sidhe lady," Molly said. "Now upgraded to spooky,  crazy death Sidhe lady."
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]