WAG on murphyonic effect

[Griffyn612]

Mab was able to extend Winter on a very local level, but she doesnt have anything close to global control (and certainly not that level of casual discretion).  It's a wildly different thing, to my mind, to say that Hecate (or any single deity of Magic) has blanket control to dictate how Magic, specifically Mortal Magic works on a global scale, and most especially when they then exercise that power to intentionally make Mortals better Prey. 

Anyone that could make that sort of absolute change could also, for instance, declare that Mortal Magic cannot summon Outsiders. Or even that anyone else can; so I really hope they are on the 'Good Guys' side (ie. pro-free will).

I still don't see it being as extreme as you do.  Restricting a form or type of magic is several magnitudes higher than adding a status effect to magic use.  Especially to the current embodiment of Hecate.  One's overriding free will; the other is a side effect that does nothing to restrict free will. 

Given, I'm one that assumes that there is a link between Hecate/Hekate and Heka.  It seems like too much of a coincidence that she's linked to magic in the Greek pantheon, and shares a name root with that of Heka, the male Egyptian embodiment of magic. 

[jonas]

Heka, the male Egyptian embodiment of magic.

*blinks* I thought that was the eagle/falcon headed guy Horus? and where is she linked to magic in greek mythos!? I'm getting jealous of your sudden mythological prowess lol.

[Griffyn612]

*blinks* I thought that was the eagle/falcon headed guy Horus? and where is she linked to magic in greek mythos!? I'm getting jealous of your sudden mythological prowess lol.

From the great Wiki.

Hecate or Hekate... was variously associated with crossroads, entrance-ways, light, magic, witchcraft, knowledge of herbs and poisonous plants, ghosts, necromancy, and sorcery.

And as for Heka...

Heka (/ˈhɛkə/; Egyptian: Ḥkȝ; also spelled Hike) was the deification of magic in ancient Egypt. The name is the Egyptian word for "magic".

The word Heka means action of the Ka or activation of the Ka, the Ka being the ancient Egyptian concept of the vital force.

I've read comment that firmly argues against an association between the two, but it wasn't very convincing.  It basically boiled down to "Heka was a man, and Hekate was a woman, so they're not the same".  Which doesn't mean as much in a fantasy setting with mantles.

As for Horus, I'm unfamiliar with any role he played in magic.

[jonas]

From the great Wiki.
And as for Heka...
I've read comment that firmly argues against an association between the two, but it wasn't very convincing.  It basically boiled down to "Heka was a man, and Hekate was a woman, so they're not the same".  Which doesn't mean as much in a fantasy setting with mantles.

As for Horus, I'm unfamiliar with any role he played in magic.

*shakes head* maybe I've been mixing mythos too long. I thought Horus's mother was who blessed man with runes. Maybe I'm thinking Mesopotamia or Sumerian or something. Cause the name I'm catching in my head isn't Isis. Mythology my schoolhood love, its been too long ;(
I agree Male, female. Probably no difference.
I'm convinced Baba Yaga was probably just a female Death. Go anywhere, kill anything.

[Zaphodess]

I've read comment that firmly argues against an association between the two, but it wasn't very convincing.  It basically boiled down to "Heka was a man, and Hekate was a woman, so they're not the same".  Which doesn't mean as much in a fantasy setting with mantles.

I have to disagree here. In Hecate's case, gender is crucial. She's developed from the Mother goddess archetype.

[Griffyn612]

I have to disagree here. In Hecate's case, gender is crucial. She's developed from the Mother goddess archetype.

Maybe you missed my point, in that Hecate could have assumed a mantle previously possessed by Heka.  Or came to possess a portion of the aspect of magic from him.

If we go by Bob's comment in WttJ, we could even theorize that Hecate was a mortal that ascended to power through ritual.  Either way, they share an association with magic.  One that could potentially give the current iteration of Hecate some measure of influence over mortal magic.

[Quantus]

I still don't see it being as extreme as you do.  Restricting a form or type of magic is several magnitudes higher than adding a status effect to magic use.  Especially to the current embodiment of Hecate.  One's overriding free will; the other is a side effect that does nothing to restrict free will. 

Would you mind elaborating on that?  How do you picture/characterize each side and the difference?  Im pretty sure imagining it differently so Im struggling to shift to your POV on this. 

Given, I'm one that assumes that there is a link between Hecate/Hekate and Heka.  It seems like too much of a coincidence that she's linked to magic in the Greek pantheon, and shares a name root with that of Heka, the male Egyptian embodiment of magic. 

On this we agree, I have no issues with Heka being in the overall mix right along side all the others.  While I do agree with Zaph that Gender is important to the current Hecate mantle as a Triple Goddess, a Table and a Bodkin solve that discrepancy decisively.   

Also, if Im correct in one theory, then the Mothers are also aspects of the hindu Trimurti, and that makes the Mother Winter side an extension of Shiva the Destroyer, who is a male god that was split down the middle and has a female half. 

All that to say I think that for gods and Gods, Gender is Fashion; Sometimes it matters to their central identity (akin to a uniform) but mostly it's a matter of mood and preference.  Like with the Naagloshii, or maybe even Bob. 

*shakes head* maybe I've been mixing mythos too long. I thought Horus's mother was who blessed man with runes. Maybe I'm thinking Mesopotamia or Sumerian or something. Cause the name I'm catching in my head isn't Isis. Mythology my schoolhood love, its been too long ;(
I agree Male, female. Probably no difference.
I'm convinced Baba Yaga was probably just a female Death. Go anywhere, kill anything.

Fwiw, the egyptian mythos were waaaay more fluid than most, they changed their myths with every political upheaval.  Isis was Horus' mother who tricked Magic out of Ra, so it was central to her mythos.  Heka was the actual personification of Magic, though.  Heka was the literal word for Magic, literally meaning Activation of Life Force (which fits flawlessly into the Chi magic framework of the DV.  I think an analogy might be Hades as the God of Death compared to Thanatos as the literal personification of it.