Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)

[kazimmoinuddin]

To me it sounds like Drakul is a potential inmate for the well, but after it is released from its human shape cage.

Part of me hopes the BCV would be wiped out, but unless something akin to the bloodline curse is used, it would be very tricky. I am at least hoping for the remaining elders and nobles of the court get dealt with. Without the protection of their patrons, the remains of the court would be hunted and removed.
The thing is with such a limited number of elders, I doubt they would ever gather together as it would present too big a target. So it would be a big deal for them to do so.

[Rasins]

To me it sounds like Drakul is a potential inmate for the well, but after it is released from its human shape cage.

Part of me hopes the BCV would be wiped out, but unless something akin to the bloodline curse is used, it would be very tricky. I am at least hoping for the remaining elders and nobles of the court get dealt with. Without the protection of their patrons, the remains of the court would be hunted and removed.
The thing is with such a limited number of elders, I doubt they would ever gather together as it would present too big a target. So it would be a big deal for them to do so.

IF they were actually being hunted.  There's nothing to say that they are still being hunted.  Especially with the Fellowship being decimated in Changes.

[LordDresden2]

30-ish Black Court Elders.  Thirteen is the number of Grey Council Members and the max number that can collaborate on a spell via a Circle, but it sometimes gets confused in discussion

I'm not sure I trust that 13 limit, either.  Harry claimed it was so way back in Storm Front, yes, but that might have been limited information on his part.  It may well be the usual limit, but JB has at least implied that ways around it exist.

He once said that in theory, the White Council could take on Mab, if they had her Name, and all the Wizards in the Council combined their strength to do it.  That at least implies that it's possible to make spell-combos and spell-circles with more than 13 members...or maybe you can combine such groups of 13 into larger groups of groups, or something.

But per JB's comment it's apparently theoretically possible for the whole Council to hit you at once.  If you don't happen to be Mab or Titania or a Mother or an Archangel, I suspect that would hurt.  A lot.

[LordDresden2]

Sure thing, Here you go.. It's the second part, but the Black Court portion of the "Are they Evil" part is also informative:

And also what is Drakul a scion of?
Drakul wasn't a scion of anything! He was something entirely unhuman that got trapped in human form. Dracula was his half-human child, who naturally had enormous paternal issues, and wound up creating himself as the first Black Court Vampire in an effort to win his father's approval.
It didn't work out so well.

Thanks!  I had missed that last.  I remembered reading someone in-story refer to Dracula running away to join the Black Court, but I had not realized that he had founded it.

[Quantus]

Thanks!  I had missed that last.  I remembered reading someone in-story refer to Dracula running away to join the Black Court, but I had not realized that he had founded it.

Same. Finding out he was the Founder changed things dramatically, not the least of which is anchors the Black Court as the youngest by FAR (of the three we've seen, anyway).  Id always discounted theories of Mavra being (or becoming) an Elder based on the assumption that the Elders would be a few thousand years old like the oldest of the Reds or Whites.  But now we know that a)they are all going to be a 1000 years or less (give or take) and b)they gain power via pure bodycount, so in the right circumstances they could really thrive.  And by "right circumstances" I mean anything that might have a Horseman of the Apocalypse Named after it. 

[LordDresden2]

Same. Finding out he was the Founder changed things dramatically, not the least of which is anchors the Black Court as the youngest by FAR (of the three we've seen, anyway).  Id always discounted theories of Mavra being (or becoming) an Elder based on the assumption that the Elders would be a few thousand years old like the oldest of the Reds or Whites.  But now we know that a)they are all going to be a 1000 years or less (give or take) and b)they gain power via pure bodycount, so in the right circumstances they could really thrive.  And by "right circumstances" I mean anything that might have a Horseman of the Apocalypse Named after it.

All of a sudden, my mind flashes to Kemmler, who according to Bob had a big hand in bringing about the Great War.  Bob told Harry that Kemmler had spent the better part of a century setting it up (which makes sense, because the international tensions that exploded in 1914 had deep roots), but he never did give Harry/us any real motive other than that Kemmler was 'crazy and evil'.  Bob did, however, tell Harry that Kemmler had allies in the vampire courts.

Now crazy and evil can certainly motivate people, but spending decades on end carefully setting up something as big as World War I presumably had some purpose beyond 'just because'.  But if you wanted your Black Court allies to have a chance to level up quickly, that would be a way to go about it.

[Con]

All of a sudden, my mind flashes to Kemmler, who according to Bob had a big hand in bringing about the Great War.  Bob told Harry that Kemmler had spent the better part of a century setting it up (which makes sense, because the international tensions that exploded in 1914 had deep roots), but he never did give Harry/us any real motive other than that Kemmler was 'crazy and evil'.  Bob did, however, tell Harry that Kemmler had allies in the vampire courts.

Now crazy and evil can certainly motivate people, but spending decades on end carefully setting up something as big as World War I presumably had some purpose beyond 'just because'.  But if you wanted your Black Court allies to have a chance to level up quickly, that would be a way to go about it.

Especially if Stoker's Book and the Black Court Purge had been making waves against the Court. Also ties into the idea that Kemmler got his improved Dark Hallow idea from Dracula failed attempt and ascension, and the Black Court's method of feeding on the life force of people.

[Snark Knight]

The thing is with such a limited number of elders, I doubt they would ever gather together as it would present too big a target. So it would be a big deal for them to do so.

Cough TUNGUSKA cough

[jonas]

All of a sudden, my mind flashes to Kemmler, who according to Bob had a big hand in bringing about the Great War.  Bob told Harry that Kemmler had spent the better part of a century setting it up (which makes sense, because the international tensions that exploded in 1914 had deep roots), but he never did give Harry/us any real motive other than that Kemmler was 'crazy and evil'.  Bob did, however, tell Harry that Kemmler had allies in the vampire courts.

Now crazy and evil can certainly motivate people, but spending decades on end carefully setting up something as big as World War I presumably had some purpose beyond 'just because'.  But if you wanted your Black Court allies to have a chance to level up quickly, that would be a way to go about it.

Yes they did, the ground work and death before a dark hallow is part of what makes up how big and bad it's actually going to be, he was setting the groundwork for his own DH that woulda made DB's look like a kitty ride by comparison. iirc, first time they killed him was before he could pull it off.

[Quantus]

I basically he was just setting up a fertile environment for Chaos, Death, and Change.  Which is something that benefited Blamps just as much as kemmler. Probably was a great time for Nic too, I bet he was jealous.  Any or all of them could have been co-conspirators, allies, and/or complicit bystanders in that time.   

[Griffyn612]

I basically he was just setting up a fertile environment for Chaos, Death, and Change.  Which is something that benefited Blamps just as much as kemmler. Probably was a great time for Nic too, I bet he was jealous.  Any or all of them could have been co-conspirators, allies, and/or complicit bystanders in that time.   

Chaos is a ladder.

[Quantus]

Chaos is a ladder.

Oh my god, my childhood wasnt wasted!

(click to show/hide)

I was being prepared for the Apocalypse!!

[Griffyn612]

Oh my god, my childhood wasnt wasted!

(click to show/hide)

I was being prepared for the Apocalypse!!

Methinks Harry would have been better served playing Guess Who, considering his... nemesis...

[kazimmoinuddin]

I. Hope if Harry sees mavra that he carries out his threat and uses necromancy on her, to either turn her into a weapon against other threats or force her into facing the sun/walk into the fire.

[Griffyn612]

I. Hope if Harry sees mavra that he carries out his threat and uses necromancy on her, to either turn her into a weapon against other threats or force her into facing the sun/walk into the fire.

Or just unmake the magics keeping her animated, causing her to crumble into a pile of dust at a casual wave of his hand.