Author Topic: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)  (Read 21402 times)

Offline raidem

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2017, 03:58:24 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 04:00:02 PM by raidem »
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Offline Quantus

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2017, 05:17:45 PM »
Skin Game threw me for a bit of a loop with that. I'd kept expecting at least a B-plot with vampires, since one court or another has been significant somehow in every multiple of three up until SG.
Damn, good point.  OK, sooooo....What if Hades is somehow the progenitor of the White Court?  Their official Court Language is from the right general region.  Maybe the spirit half of that particular breed of "half-born" was a greco-roman something? 

Im reaching hard for something, help me out
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Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2017, 05:28:20 PM »
I'm pretty sure it will just be time to catch up with the vampires in book 16.

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2017, 07:12:14 PM »
Damn, good point.  OK, sooooo....What if Hades is somehow the progenitor of the White Court?  Their official Court Language is from the right general region.  Maybe the spirit half of that particular breed of "half-born" was a greco-roman something? 

Im reaching hard for something, help me out

I don't know what kind of research Jim did before he chose Etruscan as the native language of the White Court, but I know they predate the Romans and according to the wiki article I found on them their civilization may have had some ancient Greek influences.  By ancient Greek I mean Homer and the Trojan War era Greeks, not the later more advanced city states era with people like Pericles, Leonidas, Socrates and Plato. 

There is something I do remember about the Etruscans from a history class I took which could relate to White Court.  The historian and story teller Herodotus; sometimes referred to as the Father of History and at other times as the Father of Lies, was widely traveled and was shocked by the behavior of Etruscan women.  In Athens women were decidedly second class citizens.  If you; assuming you're a man, was invited to diner at someones home, you wouldn't see the women of the house unless they were slaves serving the diner.  A man's wife and daughters were kept cloistered most of the time.  (The same isn't true in Sparta, but they were really weird in other ways.)  If you were a women invited to the same Athenian diner, you were most likely a Hetaira, essentially a highly paid courtesan.  Etruscan women on the other hand seemed to enjoy a measure of equality with their male counterparts.  At a similar diner they would talk politics and the news of the day along with the men; and if Herodotus is correct, their ideas and opinions were no less to be held valid then the men's.  More importantly, Etruscan women had distinct legal rights and could pass down their names and titles to their children.  The Romans and Greeks said Etruscan women were lewd and lascivious because they did scandalous things like going out in public unattended by men, getting under the same blanket their husband was using at a winter banquet, and they rode horses and some had their own chariots, shocking!

So an ancient civilization were women have some degree of equality.  A perfect example for someone who wants to seize power like Lara or; I can't remember her name, the late head of Malvora clan.  It makes the White Court's emergence in that place and era seem plausible.   
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 06:45:07 AM by KurtinStGeorge »
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Offline jonas

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2017, 10:03:55 PM »
Damn, good point.  OK, sooooo....What if Hades is somehow the progenitor of the White Court?  Their official Court Language is from the right general region.  Maybe the spirit half of that particular breed of "half-born" was a greco-roman something? 

Im reaching hard for something, help me out
Are's and Aphrodite had triplets named, terror, lust and despair. ;) one Greco-Roman connection.

I thought every 3 books was a N connection, not Vamp connection? It should work that way.
So 3, Cowl and the poison gifts, 6 Lord Raith, Hwwbh, BCV, ect. 9 BCV, Glau, Whatever came out of AT 12 Two different contingents of RCV fighting with different goals, targeting WC (again) 15... The whore of Babylon Mrs. Lartessa? idk, think it's wrapped up between her, the objects themselves(anti-N/ outsider weapons yea?) and Nic's shattered soul.
I'd still keep looking for any hidden Vampires in SG I guess or better/clearer N connects.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 10:38:43 PM by jonas »
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2017, 11:10:16 PM »
Are's and Aphrodite had triplets named, terror, lust and despair. ;) one Greco-Roman connection.
Interesting

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9 BCV, Glau, Whatever came out of AT
That was book 8. Book 9 was White Night.

Offline kazimmoinuddin

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2017, 11:27:06 PM »
The council expert on the vampire courts was killed, but I. Wonder what happened to his gathered lord. I could see mavra and cowl eager for the parts concerning the BCV, that combined with necromancy would have epic consequences.
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Offline jonas

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2017, 11:30:58 PM »
Interesting
That was book 8. Book 9 was White Night.
Oh, oops. I wondered why I had to strain on that. WN is easier, We got Raith which covers vamps and N. Cowl, Elaine, ect.
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Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2017, 12:57:17 AM »
The council expert on the vampire courts was killed, but I. Wonder what happened to his gathered lord. I could see mavra and cowl eager for the parts concerning the BCV, that combined with necromancy would have epic consequences.

I'm pretty sure "Cowl" doesn't need Simon's notebooks...

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2017, 12:58:44 AM »
Nobody likes to lose a journal.
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Offline vultur

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2017, 05:38:17 AM »
Are's and Aphrodite had triplets named, terror, lust and despair. ;) one Greco-Roman connection.

That's somewhat of a stretch.  The children of Ares and Aphrodite are usually Harmonia (Harmony), Phobos (Fear), and Deimos (Terror), or just Phobos and Deimos.

Later on Eros and Anteros (gods of love) can be listed as children of Ares and Aphrodite.

But Eros is love and desire, not merely lust (though that's included), and Phobos/Deimos are more like battlefield fears (panic/rout/terror) than despair.

Offline jonas

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2017, 06:44:41 AM »
That's somewhat of a stretch.  The children of Ares and Aphrodite are usually Harmonia (Harmony), Phobos (Fear), and Deimos (Terror), or just Phobos and Deimos.

Later on Eros and Anteros (gods of love) can be listed as children of Ares and Aphrodite.

But Eros is love and desire, not merely lust (though that's included), and Phobos/Deimos are more like battlefield fears (panic/rout/terror) than despair.
well,
Quote
In Greek mythology, Eros (/ˈɪərɒs/ or US: /ˈɛrɒs/, /ˈɛroʊs/;[2] Greek: Ἔρως, "Desire")[3] was the Greek god of sexual attraction. His Roman counterpart was Cupid[4] ("desire").

Phobos (Ancient Greek: Φόβος, pronounced [pʰóbos], meaning "fear") is the personification of fear in Greek mythology.
Phobos in Greek literally means fear (Ancient Greek: Φόβος). Spartan soldiers would idolize Phobos, because he symbolized discipline, and consistency of the armed forces.

Deimos[pronunciation?] (Ancient Greek: Δεῖμος, pronounced [dêːmos], meaning "dread"), is the Greek god of terror.
While none of what you say is inherently untrue,(although I give your Eros proclamation a stink eye on it being in the direction of a pure historical opinion at this pointin space/time)but purely looking at it from aspects of power, not from beliefs around those powers the result is the same there. fear, terror, lust in origin. All lines up.
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Offline Quantus

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2017, 12:42:48 PM »
well,While none of what you say is inherently untrue,(although I give your Eros proclamation a stink eye on it being in the direction of a pure historical opinion at this pointin space/time)but purely looking at it from aspects of power, not from beliefs around those powers the result is the same there. fear, terror, lust in origin. All lines up.
There's also the roman evolution to consider, much like Hades to pluto.

Cupid was re-imagined somewhat, was a bit more specifically "the god of desire, erotic love, attraction and affection." and often associated with Baccus in roman art.  The difference between the Uncontrollable Desire that his arrow's imparted and real Love was the primary theme of the Cupid and Psyche tale, too.


All this to say I love the idea that the Wampires are a greek mythos offshoot race.  Greek myths were full of that
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Offline Con

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2017, 12:57:45 PM »
Hmm I've always been of the opinion the Wampire's Hunger is from the Outside. It doesn't fit that they'd be from a Greek offshoot as all the Greek beings or descendants of are part of the Natural Order whether they've turned it Sidhe or a Guardians of Items of Power like Hades.

Plus it fits in with the theme that the Venatores are fighting the Outside and Elder Gods as they have a link to them already, like they're trying to fight their own dual natures.

Offline Quantus

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Re: Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2017, 01:09:18 PM »
Hmm I've always been of the opinion the Wampire's Hunger is from the Outside. It doesn't fit that they'd be from a Greek offshoot as all the Greek beings or descendants of are part of the Natural Order whether they've turned it Sidhe or a Guardians of Items of Power like Hades.

Plus it fits in with the theme that the Venatores are fighting the Outside and Elder Gods as they have a link to them already, like they're trying to fight their own dual natures.
How are the Wampires not "part of the natural order" where Gorgans and cyclopes and, well, a lot of the Fomor still are?


Personally, I think the Blacks might be the Outsider fueled ones, after this WOJ that said: "Black Court Vamps are a different story. They're actually tainted by something hideous and unworldly." They are driven to kill to survive. They don't really have a lot of choice about it. They enjoy being what they are, and doing what they do. They can be sad that they don't have someone who loves them, or upset that the world has passed them by and has changed on them, but at the end of the day, they're basically black-hearts who occasionally pull out a few of the tattered remains of their humanity, fail to fit back into them like they used to, and get maudlin about their glory days when they could watch the sun rise.

Combine that with the fact that Drakul is "something entirely unhuman that got trapped in human form" and Dracula created the Black Court "in an effort to win his father's approval"  Im currently thinking that Drakul is a former Outsider that got trapped/stuck/transformed into a Mortal somehow, and Dracula was trying to tap into Outsider powers somehow (hoping to impress dad) and the accidental result was becoming the first Black Court Vampire.
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“We’re all imaginary friends to one another."

"An entire life, an entire personality, can be permanently altered by just one sentence." -An Accidental Villain