Chronomancy– How To?

[Orion Ultor]

There's a new foe this week, in my friend's game; a Chronomancer Warlock, who'd discovered how to send his memories back to the better part of a day under his own power, more if he used the power of other sources such as storms, leylines, etc. 

The problem is is that we need to figure out how to the same thing, (or at least I do, as GM), and send someone back to the past if they are unable to stop the warlock's spell.

How would I do this from a mechanical viewpoint?

[g33k]

Honestly, I would encourage Other Solutions.  Chronomancy violates one of the Laws of Magic, and the Snicker isn't a candybar snack, but the sound of a wardensword going snicker-snack a split-second before you stop hearing anything at all.  I believe the Gatekeeper, Rashid, is canonically able to notice this sort of thing (and will draw the Wardens there to stop it hard).  It's more than possible that the PC's are being observed/tested to see how they react to THIS chronomancer, before the wardens kill him.

Off the top of my head, it seems like extensive pre-planning and a staggered attack is the way to go...  Your REAL attack is planned for the day BEFORE your feint:

• You stage an interaction with him, with a Taken Out level of damage ready to pile on with no notice, but you DON'T carry it out unless he shows some level of being chronomance'd; you are carrying an obvious (but not obviously dangerous) McGuffin.
• The NEXT day, you conduct your "feint," attacking him in a way to make him Chronomance-warn himself; here, the McGuffin needs to be used in a dangerous/scary way.
• If the Warlock, on the 1st day, shows any caution or wariness about the not-obviously-dangerous McGuffin, then He Has Warned Himself, so your future-selves have done the feint; Take Him Out, instantly.

This is predicated on the idea that he cannot daisy-chain his chronomancy -- if he just did it, and has a freshly-chronomance'd memory, he cannot just send it off back down the timestream ANOTHER day back (etc etc etc); if he can, you need another plan.

That said... Chronomancy is almost-certainly in the realm of Spirit magic.  Lots and lots of shifts, and specialized knowledge (I wouldn't expect this to be an off-the-cuff thing).

[Taran]

Sending your memories back is kind of the same as doing augury in the present, isn't it?  Getting a glimpse of the future?  Divination is not against the Laws.

Lawbreaking aside, I'd just run it like that:  He has foresight.

Knowing what is going to happen in the future is an appropriate skill replacement ritual:
How will this person react when I tell them this? EMpathy skill replacement
What is behind the door?  Investigation replacement
I know they will attack me so I can dodge at the right time: athletics replacement

Or, for longer term spell where you know the outcome of a scene or scenario use a maneuver: 'I know the future' sticky aspect that lasts for as much duration as you need that can be tagged for effect.  It's an aspect that gets attached to the City (not a specific person or scene)

Therefore, they send a person's memory backwards in time.  Now you rp the scene but they already know what is going to happen and they have an aspect to tag or invoke or compel.  Essentially, look at the rules for Cassandra's Tears or Potent Prayer and run the game like that.

[khadgar4606]

I am with g33k this violates laws of magic not in lets kill the Hitler before he bacame menace but more like eventually
perfecting simple long term plan as he gains 24 hours to stack the deck back in his favor we know how harry can fix every thing in last 24 hours period when he has all the pieces in his hand unlike this chronomaniac he doesnt have ability to ask his past self to do some things different due situation isn't good currently hell bastard can simply use it to cheat at any were if he wants

[Quantus]

I like the idea of modeling this as a type of foresight.  Especially in the case described, a ritual that sends the person back most of a day (correct).  The inclusion of the Butterfly Effect would keep the benefit of this high-level, without it allowing you to dodge bullets or always win at blackjack which could become problematic.  As the Day goes on the benefits would become less and less specific and/or relevant, as the timelines diverge. 

[Taran]

I am with g33k this violates laws of magic not in lets kill the Hitler before he bacame menace but more like eventually
perfecting simple long term plan as he gains 24 hours to stack the deck back in his favor we know how harry can fix every thing in last 24 hours period when he has all the pieces in his hand unlike this chronomaniac he doesnt have ability to ask his past self to do some things different due situation isn't good currently hell bastard can simply use it to cheat at any were if he wants

Whether it's lawbreaking is beside the point. 

I like the idea of modeling this as a type of foresight.  Especially in the case described, a ritual that sends the person back most of a day (correct).  The inclusion of the Butterfly Effect would keep the benefit of this high-level, without it allowing you to dodge bullets or always win at blackjack which could become problematic.  As the Day goes on the benefits would become less and less specific and/or relevant, as the timelines diverge. 

Yeah, I like that the butterfly effect would chang outcomes.  But that's why Potent prayer Cassandra tears works well.  You use invokes to push things towards a specific outcome using FP.  The use of an aspect limits your ability to change things except at really critical points

[Quantus]

Whether it's lawbreaking is beside the point. 

Yeah, I like that the butterfly effect would chang outcomes.  But that's why Potent prayer Cassandra tears works well.  You use invokes to push things towards a specific outcome using FP.  The use of an aspect limits your ability to change things except at really critical points

Agreed, that makes it a clean way to control it, and avoids the PC becoming as invincible as (academyawardwinner) Nicholas Cage   

[g33k]

Whether it's lawbreaking is beside the point. 

Well... if the Wardens get on you about it, that's possibly QUITE to the point (or the edge).
Similarly, if it violates some metaphysical "this will FU@% you up" Laws-of-Nature, it may become an issue.

But if it's a conventional / man-made "law"-with-a-lower-case-l and you can keep your lawbreaking hidden... sure, no problem.

But under the RAW, lawbreaking gets the Lawbreaker stunt, so the OP plan to have the PC's engage in the same Chronomancy implies it IS to the point... if this IS lawbreaking, any of them that do it will get the Stunt.

[Taran]

Well... if the Wardens get on you about it, that's possibly QUITE to the point (or the edge).
Similarly, if it violates some metaphysical "this will FU@% you up" Laws-of-Nature, it may become an issue.

But if it's a conventional / man-made "law"-with-a-lower-case-l and you can keep your lawbreaking hidden... sure, no problem.

But under the RAW, lawbreaking gets the Lawbreaker stunt, so the OP plan to have the PC's engage in the same Chronomancy implies it IS to the point... if this IS lawbreaking, any of them that do it will get the Stunt.

I should clarify: the OP wasn't asking about Lawbreaking, he was asking about how to do a chronomancy spell using game mechanics.  Whether it is or not is something they should decide among their group and the GM will probably have interesting fallout no matter what they decide.

In any case, you want 4 shifts to place a sticky aspect on the City plus extra shifts based on how long you want it to work.  Maybe a base complexity of 3 or 4, depending on how far back they want to go.

So like....12 shifts? I'm spitballing.   Haven't looked at the time ladder

Edit:  you can skip over the casting if it's just a segue into an adventure 'that takes place in the past' or something.

Another option is Worldwalking.  Maybe there's a place in the nevernever that time slips backwards....maybe they don't even cast it.  Maybe even Rashid sends their memories back.

Edit2:  or maybe they don't even cast chronomancy to go back in time.  Maybe they use it to, instead intercept the memories that are being sent backwards from the future.  a.k.a: they receive the exact same information from the future that the warlock is getting and can, therefore, predict his actions based on what he's learned.

This bypasses the chronomancy lawbreaker: they are receiving the information in the present
This bypasses mind-alteration lawbreaking:  the memories have been sent through time and are free of any individual's mind.

In any case, use Potent Prayer as a guide for how to run the scenario.

[whitelaughter]

Essentially, look at the rules for Cassandra's Tears or Potent Prayer and run the game like that.

Oh, that gets interesting...
- anyone with Cassandra's Tears can be compelled with the knowledge of a future event, that other people won't believe.
i) So there'd be nothing to stop you spending a Fate Point to say that another PC with Cassandra's Tears was aware of an event you are currently going through, which could be useful. "I spend a FP so that Fred knew we'd end up locked in a safe". [Fred holds up oxy acetylene torch he grabbed after seeing vision] "Fred, you realise using that in here will kill us?"
ii) Possibly the reason people don't believe the prediction is an instinctive protection mechanism to prevent them getting Lawbreaker(sixth)? In which case a PC who starts using the info gained from CT will be risking breaking the Law.

Going by our one data point in the files, the Gatekeeper' cryptic reference to Dresden, I'd suggest that you can only provide info if it is relevant to the character you are warning (thus Dresden is warned of a Doom of Damocles possibility because of his own Doom), ie you can only spend the Fate Point if it is relevant to the target's Aspects.
Should a paradox occur, the Lawbreaker Stunt strikes.

The only need for Thaumaturgy is to give yourself (or someone else) a zero cost temporary power.

Or, you could put CT and 3 levels of Lawbreaker(sixth) into an item, and the cost drops to 1 point; your crystal ball now has 3 shifts toward what you want to know. Using shapeshift to make the item out of yourself, you might be able to shed the Lawbreaker Stunt into the item (since technically you've still got it, merely trapped in the item).