Better Guns for Dresden and Co.

[uncanny]

personally I never understood why there isn't a weapons master for the wardens. If they all get a sword and a cloak why not a set of armor or shield like swat or at the very least someone independent that makes stuff like the guy that made daredevils suits in the netflix show

I wondered something similar actually.  Yes, Luccio used to make the swords BUT that's a specific, unique item.   I don't watch daredevil, so maybe my thought is already expressed, but I'm thinking more like someone who is tasked with looking over the wizard's arsenal and directing them appropriately. (No wand?  Oh, oh, sorry "blasting rod".  Yeah, you'll need one.  No bullet dampener focus?  Ok, you'll need to fix that.  Here's a book on how to create short and long term focii, and forms to request materials.  Return it undamaged, if you value your health.  Using a revolver?  What are we, the wild west?  Use a semi-auto son, we ARE in the 21st century after all!)  He could even be responsible for handing out expensive materials for enchanting requirements, or even holding specific items when not needed in the field, and then chases down the wizard who borrowed it (with or without extreme prejudice .  Basically... a wizard version of Q?

[prince lotore]

a nerdier example would be microchip for the punisher or wayne tech for batman

[dspringer1]

I think the real barrier for wardens with regards to packing serious firepower in the shape of guns is range.   They pack swords in part because they are old school, but also because a wizard is at their weakest at point blank range.   Wizards like to fight at range - where their magic is much more useful.

the other reasons is that wizards have limited time.  Becoming experts in a lot of weapons simply takes time to achieve and practice to maintain.  It is certainly doable, but almost all wizards are going to limit themselves to a small number of such weapons so as to minimize the time required as they really want to devote their free time to magic, not firearm skill.   That naturally lends itself to wizards having a favorite few weapons and ignoring the rest. 

Finally, when it comes to supernatural threats, a supernatural threat with a gun is going to have a significant advantage over a wizard with a gun -- faster reflexes, supernatural grace, etc.  Firearms are never going to be more than a backup weapon for a wizard.   Their magic is simply a far bigger threat to enemies.   Where firearms have an edge is when the battle is long (ie - they exhaust their magic), when the gun is unexpected (surprise), when their foe is particularly good at blocking magic,  or when they need to kill something without breaking the laws of magic. 

[Shift8]

Actually I would say its the exact opposite in nature, at least with most of the direct evocation most of the Wizards in the DV use most of the time.

Range is usually the advantage of the guns in the DV. Wizards as I see it are much more deadly in close. Remember that Harry thought a sniper was the most dangerous thing to him. A in close enemy he can see is far more his purview.

I dont think it can really be argued that learning how to use a gun would somehow hinder the use of magic. Regular mortals IRL learn more than one skill in addition to using a gun. You can go to school for engineering and still be a special forces person. For the same reason you can play in the NBA and go to school for something useful. When you add in that wizards live for centuries, this becomes even more moot.

Really depends on the nature of the supernatural threat though. We have seen plenty of Ramps and Wamps get outdrawn and out fought in gun duels. There is alot more to a gun fight that reaction speed, and even then the speed difference has to exceed other factors to actually matter.

IIRC in the very first book Dresden lays out why he uses guns, and the theme is both restated and shown throughout the books. Guns are not secondaries. They are complements. In certain situations they are better than the magic most wizards use in direct fights.

Quite frankly one of the best parts about the DV is that guns and technology are in a competitive, rather than hierarchical, relationship. Most other urban fantasy tend to make regular non magic users completely worthless. One of the reasons I loved the DV in the first place is that it did NOT do this.

That is what makes the DV so awesome. No other fantasy series I know of combines magic with guns like the DV. Seriously what is better than a giant gunfight between vampires and wizards where both sides are also using supernatural abilities and flinging lightning?

[groinkick]

I think that wizards would be less effective if their focus was split between guns, and magic.  They wouldn't be as good with guns as the professional mercenaries hired by the supernatural community, and by focusing on guns they would be giving up their greatest advantage, magic.

There is a saying that "you run when the plan fails" - Tremors movie.  Well guns are what wizards use when the plan fails.  Guns are basically a last ditch effort to survive. 

That being said the White Council might be better off if they recruit the least magically talented people around the world (instead of ignoring them), and have them focus on traditional military training to help support the more magically gifted wizards.

That's how I see things anyways.

[Quantus]

I think that wizards would be less effective if their focus was split between guns, and magic.  They wouldn't be as good with guns as the professional mercenaries hired by the supernatural community, and by focusing on guns they would be giving up their greatest advantage, magic.

I dunno, I think the same logic could be applied to studying markmenship vs hand-to-hand combat, but both are valuable to a soldier. 

There is a saying that "you run when the plan fails" - Tremors movie.  Well guns are what wizards use when the plan fails.  Guns are basically a last ditch effort to survive. 

I have to disagree here, it's been stated in the books over and over that guns do not fall behind magic when it come to killing, that they are unarguably well-optimized instruments of death. 

That being said the White Council might be better off if they recruit the least magically talented people around the world (instead of ignoring them), and have them focus on traditional military training to help support the more magically gifted wizards.

That's how I see things anyways.

Ya, because the Have-Nots already loved getting drafted into the Council's war, they are going to LOVE getting conscripted into their subordinate military forces  
No, that's not something the council is going to do or anyone is likely to agree to; the only actual benefit of Council membership is actual full Membership.  That is, however, exactly what Nic has done give or take a few Tongues.  Mostly Take.

[Kindler]

I dont think it can really be argued that learning how to use a gun would somehow hinder the use of magic. Regular mortals IRL learn more than one skill in addition to using a gun. You can go to school for engineering and still be a special forces person. For the same reason you can play in the NBA and go to school for something useful. When you add in that wizards live for centuries, this becomes even more moot.

I'd argue that this is true for the current generation and will be so for those following it, but that a big part of the reason why this isn't the case now is because Ebenezer, for example, grew up and fought in the age of muskets and blackpowder cannon. Yes, the puckle gun was a thing, but the idea of reliable, long-range, rapid-fire (read: faster than three shots per minute, the average for Von Steuben trained Colonial Regulars) guns is still relatively new, first showing up 160 years ago. Hell, McCoy still drives a '37 pickup. There are a couple of generations of wizards who are getting used to the idea, but they're mostly trained by those who aren't yet.

Best example is Carlos. The younger wardens get it, and they're arming up. I wouldn't be surprised if someone like, say, Butters figures out ways to combine guns and magic to get different effects. Harry's Winchester could be crafted and enchanted to function as a modified blasting rod, for instance—I don't see why it couldn't. Though likely a bull-pup design would work better, with a magazine in the stock to keep it farther away from the heat.

Anyway, old habits die hard, but the new generations are using more mixed approaches to combat.

[Ulfgeir]

Given that wizards tend to mess up sensitive equipment, I sadly don't see them using things like night-vision googles or drones etc. If they were using firearms, well then it would be things like AK-47's which are built to be used in the most adverse conditions or sporting-rifles or pump-action shotguns. Simple, but reliable weapons.

/Ulfgeir

[groinkick]

I have to disagree here, it's been stated in the books over and over that guns do not fall behind magic when it come to killing, that they are unarguably well-optimized instruments of death. 

Against vanilla mortals.  Supernatural creatures are made of tougher stuff.

[Mr. Death]

Against vanilla mortals.  Supernatural creatures are made of tougher stuff.

What's said in the books is that guns are so much overkill for killing humans that they're starting to be able to threaten supernatural creatures.

Guns absolutely fall behind magic when it comes to killing; it's just that they're catching up.

[groinkick]

What's said in the books is that guns are so much overkill for killing humans that they're starting to be able to threaten supernatural creatures.

Guns absolutely fall behind magic when it comes to killing; it's just that they're catching up.

that's true.  I have argued that the best thing for Lord Raith would be a .50 cal sniper round to the head (since magic slips off of him).  It's not as much the weapons but the training required for wizards working as a military unit would diminish their use of magic I think.  Like Jim saying that wizards tools require a lot of weekly up keep to function.  Seems like the training required for traditional military conflict, + magical weapons upkeep seems like they would do little else than prepare for war which doesn't sound like their style.

[Ulfgeir]

that's true.  I have argued that the best thing for Lord Raith would be a .50 cal sniper round to the head (since magic slips off of him). 

And given that such weapon could be used at a supposedly safe range (current world record for longest confirmed kill is at almost 3.5 km now as far as I know). Now, the question is wether or not he would be able to sense the bullet approaching, and then move out of the way due to his super-speed.

/Ulfgeir

[Shift8]

An even easier way to kill Raith would be a JDAM to the Raith Mansion. Plus you'd wipe out quite a few Wamps. One does wonder why McCoy didnt do this already. If your going to drop a Sat on Ortega, you might as well take out the Wamps too.

[groinkick]

And given that such weapon could be used at a supposedly safe range (current world record for longest confirmed kill is at almost 3.5 km now as far as I know). Now, the question is wether or not he would be able to sense the bullet approaching, and then move out of the way due to his super-speed.

/Ulfgeir

I think a sniper like Kincaid would be successful for 3 reasons

1.  He wouldn't hear it coming because the bullet moves faster than sound
2.  His energy reserves are either gone, or nearly gone so he's not that powerful
3.  He didn't dodge the bullets Harry shot him with so it might be beyond his ability to do

An even easier way to kill Raith would be a JDAM to the Raith Mansion. Plus you'd wipe out quite a few Wamps. One does wonder why McCoy didnt do this already. If your going to drop a Sat on Ortega, you might as well take out the Wamps too.

It does make you wonder....

[Sully]

I dont think it can really be argued that learning how to use a gun would somehow hinder the use of magic. Regular mortals IRL learn more than one skill in addition to using a gun. You can go to school for engineering and still be a special forces person. For the same reason you can play in the NBA and go to school for something useful. When you add in that wizards live for centuries, this becomes even more moot

I don't really agree-people who learn multiple skills to a professional or elite level are exceedingly rare.

In the US military, you probably not going to be pursuing an engineering degree while serving in a combat unit.  If you're in med school as active duty-THAT is your job, not preparing for/fighting war.

Some NBA players pursue degrees in summer, but not during the season. And being in the playoffs wouldn't allow summer classes either. For NCAA players in major sports, actually getting a good education is an aberration, not the norm.

Sure a bit of versatility is always welcome. But your average wizard is likely better served by becoming a better wizard, rather than worrying about 'muggle' skills.

I'll offer a real world example as a rebuttal: the minimum salary in the NBA is over $400000.  Is an NBA player better served by finishing that accounting degree, or becoming a better basketball player and chasing a max contract(20 million+ a season).