Nicodemus

[xman146]

So, every time Nicodemus has had to tangle with Harry, Harry has basically foiled his plans. Particularly after their last run in, I can only imagine his hatred of Harry is going to be next level. So, is it just me, or does anyone else think that next time we see him, Nicodemus is going to be coming after Harry directly? (WAG: Maybe this causes Harry to release all the creatures on Demonreach and sets off the big Apocalyptic trilogy?)

[Quantus]

Wouldnt suprise me at all, thought I maintain that after the BAT kicks off, Harry and Nic are going to find themselves on the same side. 

[SintraEdrien]

Wouldnt suprise me at all, thought I maintain that after the BAT kicks off, Harry and Nic are going to find themselves on the same side.

I don't think I can agree- every time I see opinions that Nicky and the Nickelheads are secretly out to save Earth and humanity (especially as justification for their depravity), I am strongly reminded of C. S. Lewis' quote regarding Screwtape: "My readers are advised to remember that the Devil is a liar; not everything that Screwtape says should be assumed to be true, even from his own viewpoint. There is wishful thinking in Hell as well as on earth."

[dspringer1]

I think it is clear that Nicodemus is very focused on achieving some goal.   He is not into vengeance unless it services the goal. 

I do think Nik hates Harry enough that he is going to find a way to involve Harry in his end plans, even if only unconsciously.   He will want Harry to suffer as he achieves total victory.   But until that moment comes, I doubt Nik will focus any effort (beyond intelligence gathering) on Harry. 

[Snark Knight]

I don't think I can agree- every time I see opinions that Nicky and the Nickelheads are secretly out to save Earth and humanity (especially as justification for their depravity), I am strongly reminded of C. S. Lewis' quote regarding Screwtape: "My readers are advised to remember that the Devil is a liar; not everything that Screwtape says should be assumed to be true, even from his own viewpoint. There is wishful thinking in Hell as well as on earth."

I believe Deirdre was sincere about describing their purpose to 'save the world' mostly because it would have been a stupid lie to entirely make up. There was never any chance that would deceive Harry into second-guessing whether they might be justified after all, and she had to have known that. She was flaunting that she knew something he didn't, not trying to talk him over to their side.

Many of the Fallen and the willingly collaborating Denarians probably do subscribe to the wishful thinking that their tactics are justified by brutal utilitarianism, and ruling the remainder will be their just reward for having preserved something from the even worse Outsider-pocalypse. But they can be delusional about the ends justifying the means or the disease being worse than their cure without being technically liars.

[peregrine]

I think it is clear that Nicodemus is very focused on achieving some goal.   He is not into vengeance unless it services the goal. 

Getting rid of an obstacle to Nic's further goals, who also knows the one way to kill him, would be a great reason to try and murder Harry.  Especially since he tried to do just that once before, and that was before Harry even knew Nic existed.

[Snark Knight]

Getting rid of an obstacle to Nic's further goals, who also knows the one way to kill him, would be a great reason to try and murder Harry.

Well, one way, at least.

The noose can only help him if it stays on. A big enough explosion or bullet to completely destroy his neck and knock the noose off, and he's done for. Which means he's probably got more to fear from Marcone's hired vengeance and their tendency to use overkill-level firepower in at least the short to medium term.

[jonas]

Well, one way, at least.

The noose can only help him if it stays on. A big enough explosion or bullet to completely destroy his neck and knock the noose off, and he's done for. Which means he's probably got more to fear from Marcone's hired vengeance and their tendency to use overkill-level firepower in at least the short to medium term.

This is always brought up, but how do we know the noose doesn't protect itself? A two millennia old piece of rope that didn't snap as harry pulled on it in earnest and was farther unaffected by the cold lake water? just like the shroud of Turin, that thing shoulda fallen to threads. It didn't though.

[Mira]

believe Deirdre was sincere about describing their purpose to 'save the world' mostly because it would have been a stupid lie to entirely make up. There was never any chance that would deceive Harry into second-guessing whether they might be justified after all, and she had to have known that. She was flaunting that she knew something he didn't, not trying to talk him over to their side.

I believe she was also, but it is a matter of point of view, what is saving the world to one is ending it to another..

[Quantus]

This is always brought up, but how do we know the noose doesn't protect itself? A two millennia old piece of rope that didn't snap as harry pulled on it in earnest and was farther unaffected by the cold lake water? just like the shroud of Turin, that thing shoulda fallen to threads. It didn't though.

What's more, it can presumably protect him from huge Holy Swords attempting to decapitate him.  If anything could cut the Noose that would be it, and removing the Neck should be a reasonable way to remove a necklace. The Knights certainly seem to favor decapitation as a goto tactic (for good reason).

[Rasins]

I'm undecided if Nick is going to come after Harry or not.

I'm certain that Nick hates Harry, but of all the villains we've met, Nick, I think is the most focused on his goals.

Now, if Nick can work into his plans a way to kill Harry, he most certainly will.  And based on his stated purpose of acquiring the grail in SG, Harry didn't spoil his plan.

So, I think that while Nick would love to end Harry, I think he'll focus on fulfilling his goals elsewhere from Chicago.

[Snark Knight]

This is always brought up, but how do we know the noose doesn't protect itself? A two millennia old piece of rope that didn't snap as harry pulled on it in earnest and was farther unaffected by the cold lake water? just like the shroud of Turin, that thing shoulda fallen to threads. It didn't though.

The noose itself is definitely unnaturally resistant to destruction. I'm pretty sure there's even a WOJ about it, but the implicit text evidence is enough.

What it doesn't do, though, is heal the wearer absolutely immediately. Nic's wounds close when he gets shot, but it takes a distinguishable amount of time. Sufficiently violent overkill might not hurt the noose itself, but the strike only has to decapitate him and knock the noose loose.

What's more, it can presumably protect him from huge Holy Swords attempting to decapitate him.  If anything could cut the Noose that would be it, and removing the Neck should be a reasonable way to remove a necklace. The Knights certainly seem to favor decapitation as a goto tactic (for good reason).

Given how skilled he is at swordplay, it's possible that none of the Knights have ever managed to fully behead him in combat and see if it sticks. Cutting less than all the way through or too slow to knock the noose free before he starts healing isn't sufficient, and he's world-class at denying opponents the window for a clean strike. Massive explosives or an anti-tank round, on the other hand, do their damage in a few thousandths of a second.

[Quantus]

Given how skilled he is at swordplay, it's possible that none of the Knights have ever managed to fully behead him in combat and see if it sticks. Cutting less than all the way through or too slow to knock the noose free before he starts healing isn't sufficient, and he's world-class at denying opponents the window for a clean strike. Massive explosives or an anti-tank round, on the other hand, do their damage in a few thousandths of a second.

Fair Point, especially if the sword cannot directly damage the Noose.   

[Mira]

Fair Point, especially if the sword cannot directly damage the Noose.

The noose is key to Nic's life..  Harry stopped short of killing Nic with it in Small Favor, Nic took it off when he "surrendered" to Murphy, along with the coin which he dropped.  The obvious is the noose is what Judas used to hang himself with, it is logical given the Holy Swords contain the Nails from the Cross.  However we know from WOJ that Nic isn't Judas, but there are plenty of hints that Nic did live around the time of Jesus.  Also though I said it is obvious that the noose is the one that hung Judas, that doesn't make it so.  Still I cannot help but believe there is a connection there some where, and it is an object of power of some kind.

[jonas]

However we know from WOJ that Nic isn't Judas

Evidence? Only woj I know of that mentions Judas talks about good bits of storytelling, but never denies or confirms this fact.