The most frightening Denarian yet?

[LordDresden2]

Look at the other side of the line:  Thomas actually exercised his Free Will for a while trying to entirely deny his Wampire Nature to the limits of physical survival.  Lara has just built up an empire that makes Hunting Easier but will likely never even consider that she actually /shouldnt/ feed and even kill for any reason beyond the logistics involved. 

Actually, I think it's just possible that she might would, under the right circumstances (though those circumstance would be pretty improbable at her age).  There are hints, every now and then, that Lara's conscience is not quite entirely dead yet.

My mind also keeps going back to the scar on her palm, the one Thomas said was caused by picking up the wrong wedding ring.  I'm sure that wasn't mentioned for no reason.  The scar itself might be a plot point as some stage, say if Harry has to tell the real Lara from a fake one.  But I also wonder, I just wonder, if that wedding ring might not have been hers.

[jonas]

But I also wonder, I just wonder, if that wedding ring might not have been hers

Dam ;'(

[Quantus]

No, his statement about college students being taught enough real magic to transform into a pack of wolves. Tera's actions.

Oh, that.  That's...a really good point, actually.  Makes me fear a Nemfected Wolf-shifter, now.  But at least that would go a long way to explaining why Fitz is an orphan. 

to someone like Nic or Deidre? Probably. Almost certainly since it's based entirely on perspective faith.

Lets poke that idea for a second:  Is it?  I agree they're Beievers enough to make it glow like a person with a cross, but that always seemed like a person acting holding a focus object rather than anything innate.  By contrast, Harry was once able to get a 55 gallon drum of Holy Water blessed, and it retains the "faith" catch-defeating properties for some extended amount of time (couldn't say if it outlasted the sunrise).  And even closer, the Swords have burned vamps when not being held by a Knight. 

Bob described angels as fundamentally existing on the Faith spectrum of "spirit" to the point where he cannot perceive them at all.  So while a person can /channel/ faith energy through a cross, etc.  Angel might well be /made/ of said energy, so it would be present all the time in the coin and independant of any mortal holding it.  Theoretically.

Wow, I just got a Yeats reference there, from our convo. The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity. It's Murph and Nic in SG.

Nice!

[jonas]

Bob described angels as fundamentally existing on the Faith spectrum of "spirit" to the point where he cannot perceive them at all.  So while a person can /channel/ faith energy through a cross, etc.  Angel might well be /made/ of said energy, so it would be present all the time in the coin and independent of any mortal holding it.  Theoretically.

Is angel power and faith the same thing though? I thought the swords had faith effects for the same reason Michaels very armor repels one of the twins in GP, it's believed in either by the bearer or on a whole like the shroud. AND has angelic grace to level the playing field? Thing I keep thinking of is what Thorned Namsheil says to Harry about wielding soulfire without faith to base it on. Soul power and faith power aren't the same then? Just intrinsically tied to one another.(Think Dresden technically has faith in magic though but... idk?)

[Quantus]

Is angel power and faith the same thing though? I thought the swords had faith effects for the same reason Michaels very armor repels one of the twins in GP, it's believed in either by the bearer or on a whole like the shroud. AND has angelic grace to level the playing field? Thing I keep thinking of is what Thorned Namsheil says to Harry about wielding soulfire without faith to base it on. Soul power and faith power aren't the same then? Just intrinsically tied to one another.(Think Dresden technically has faith in magic though but... idk?)

Well, I looked at the original quote from DM and bob wasnt able to perceive the Shroud, not the fallen a I thought, so that takes a lot of the wind out of the idea. 

Soulfire and Faith energy are certainly separate things.  Soulfire-backed spells seemed to get around some of the Rampire durability in similar ways, but I dont know if that's due to "faith" so much as the solidified Will aspect of Soulfire on display with Mama Winter. 

Minor context nitpick: It was Shagnasty who mentioned using Soulfire without Faith, Namsiel was just pissed that  an "arrogant little monkey"  presumed to use it at all.

[Rasins]

I believe that the protection of Michael at the Masquerade would have happened if he'd been in Armor or naked.  That was an example of Michael's faith protecting him, literally.

[jonas]

I believe that the protection of Michael at the Masquerade would have happened if he'd been in Armor or naked.  That was an example of Michael's faith protecting him, literally.

Can't agree with that, it's never happened before or after, just the one time he was in full crusader garb. Which generally includes a cross on the cloth, but not on the mail plate itself. I'd find it nearly impossible to believe that's not an article of faith for him with the history behind it.

Minor context nitpick: It was Shagnasty who mentioned using Soulfire without Faith, Namsiel was just pissed that  an "arrogant little monkey"  presumed to use it at all.

Oops, your right of course. I had th right book, but the only connecters to the scene in my mind was, 1 vs an angelic entity 2 he'd already gotten his ass kicked before the now standardized reversal. Shagnasty it was though.

[Rasins]

Can't agree with that, it's never happened before or after, just the one time he was in full crusader garb. Which generally includes a cross on the cloth, but not on the mail plate itself. I'd find it nearly impossible to believe that's not an article of faith for him with the history behind it.

But we know that the crosses wont have any impact on a vampire if there isn't faith behind it.  That's why Harry's Pentacle works, but a cross wouldn't for him.

It's the faith behind it that is the power ... the protection.  Not the implement itself.  That's why Michael's faith is his protection, not the armor.

[groinkick]

Mr. Ferro with a Coin...  Gotta happen...  Just has to...  If not a Coin than Nemesis infection.

[jonas]

But we know that the crosses wont have any impact on a vampire if there isn't faith behind it.  That's why Harry's Pentacle works, but a cross wouldn't for him.

It's the faith behind it that is the power ... the protection.  Not the implement itself.  That's why Michael's faith is his protection, not the armor.

His faith in the armor in this case though. Notice it doesn't happen any other time, literally ever. Armor or not, except the one time right after they address the fact he's wearing garb from a crusader? That seems a more direct intention to showcase it from the Doyalist perspective. Heck it could have been her admitted belief that's what he appeared to be. His skins not bio-electrically faith charged that we've ever seen though. That be like the one in a million time spider-man can suddenly lift a bus when canonically he can only lift a van.

[Rasins]

His faith in the armor in this case though. Notice it doesn't happen any other time, literally ever. Armor or not, except the one time right after they address the fact he's wearing garb from a crusader? That seems a more direct intention to showcase it from the Doyalist perspective. Heck it could have been her admitted belief that's what he appeared to be. His skins not bio-electrically faith charged that we've ever seen though. That be like the one in a million time spider-man can suddenly lift a bus when canonically he can only lift a van.

Then again, we've never seen Michael ever touched by anything else that might react the same way either.