Smaug, Mr. Ferro... and Dollar Signs in the Eyes

[Rasins]

Only if Bianca had a death wish (I know I know, but pretend she didn't expect to die via Harrybomb).  Ferro is a Dragon, capital "D", remember?  As in Immortal Force of Nature On Par With Mab.  And Ferro is quite a bit more direct than Mab.  I'm pretty sure if the ramps had been dumb enough to curse his gift, he would have wiped them out for the insult.

If it was the Ramps who cursed the gift.  Personally, I don't' believe that Bianca knew the Athame was tainted.

[LordDresden2]

If it was the Ramps who cursed the gift.  Personally, I don't' believe that Bianca knew the Athame was tainted.

This^^.

Bianca looks to me like a tool of a tool.  Ortega was there, remember.  If he had wanted to prevent war with the White Council, he could easily have made it happen.  So Bianca was being used as a tool by the Red Court to start a war with the Council on a pretext.

But the Red Court, in turn, as a body, was being used as a tool by Somebody/Something in a bigger, longer game.  That's the people I would expect to be behind the tainted athame and the rest.  It's a good question whether any of the Court knew anything about the curse.

[Rasins]

Given that Arianna was probably a member of the black council/Circle, and that Duke Ortega was technically her vassal, I could totally see her ordering him to go, offer this to Winter, and he was clueless.

[Quantus]

This^^.

Bianca looks to me like a tool of a tool.  Ortega was there, remember.  If he had wanted to prevent war with the White Council, he could easily have made it happen.  So Bianca was being used as a tool by the Red Court to start a war with the Council on a pretext.

But the Red Court, in turn, as a body, was being used as a tool by Somebody/Something in a bigger, longer game.  That's the people I would expect to be behind the tainted athame and the rest.  It's a good question whether any of the Court knew anything about the curse.

Concur.  She was clearly not privvy to the Red Court/Black Council schemes in Storm Front, given how she reacted to one of her's being targeted.  Given that I doubt they'd (the LotON) have trusted her with the Big Picture even if they (the Red Court) were actually aware of Nemesis or Cowl's schemes (Im assuming here that Cowl at least was 100% aware of it all). 

[kazimmoinuddin]

The fomor was apparently supplying weapons and other material to the rcv for their war effort so they likely had great influence for their strategies.

[Warden John Marcone]

If it was the Ramps who cursed the gift.  Personally, I don't' believe that Bianca knew the Athame was tainted.

Wasn't there a WoJ that said Bianca's gifts were to the people she considered her enemies?  I'd have to go hunting for it, it's the ghost of a glimmer of a hazy remembrance.

If I'm wrong, then you make a good point.  I didn't even think of that.

[LordDresden2]

Concur.  She was clearly not privvy to the Red Court/Black Council schemes in Storm Front, given how she reacted to one of her's being targeted.  Given that I doubt they'd (the LotON) have trusted her with the Big Picture even if they (the Red Court) were actually aware of Nemesis or Cowl's schemes (Im assuming here that Cowl at least was 100% aware of it all).

After I posted earlier, I re-read that bit of Grave Peril.  Interestingly, Bianca herself seemed very surprised by Harry's reaction to her scheme, when he started blasting away and summoned up the shades of their former victims, Bianca seemed stunned, amazed, shocked that he would risk war over Susan.

But Bianca was never the sharpest fang, if you know what I mean.  I'm more convinced than ever that she didn't really have a clue what was going on, even with her own Court.  The Red Court was ready for war, and ready to use Harry and Susan as the pretext to start it, but I'm not sure Bianca understood that that was what was going down.  I think she'd been manipulated by the higher ups in her own Court to think that this was all about sticking it to her personal enemies, including Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden.

My guess is that Ortega was there, in part, to make sure Bianca did what they needed her to do and didn't upset the applecart.

Now, regarding Ortega...

Given that Arianna was probably a member of the black council/Circle, and that Duke Ortega was technically her vassal, I could totally see her ordering him to go, offer this to Winter, and he was clueless.

Yeah, if anybody among the Reds had some idea of what was happening at that party, it was probably Arianna.  She was likely planning a coup against the Red King, and she was apparently at that infamous 'dinner party' many years ago that might have been when all this was set in motion.

But even if Ariana knew some of it, I doubt she knew it all, or anything close to it.

Wasn't there a WoJ that said Bianca's gifts were to the people she considered her enemies?  I'd have to go hunting for it, it's the ghost of a glimmer of a hazy remembrance.

If I'm wrong, then you make a good point.  I didn't even think of that.

It works either way.

For ex, Bianca probably doesn't think of Ferro as her enemy.  It's hard to imagine Bianca having Ferro as an enemy and still being around long enough to be a headache for Harry, Michael, and Thomas.  Yet Ferro got a gift.

But Bianca probably thought her 'special' gifts were for her enemies, like Harry's tombstone.  She might not even have given the athame a thought.

[Rasins]

But Bianca probably thought her 'special' gifts were for her enemies, like Harry's tombstone.  She might not even have given the athame a thought.

I agree that Bianca wasn't the brightest star in the heavens.

That being said, we know that Leah desired the Athame to augment her power to fight their enemy.  We all assumed at the time she was referring to Summer, but now I wonder if she meant Nemesis and the outsiders.

That being the case, did Leah know that the Athame was tainted?  And did she think she might be able to overcome the nemfection?

Again, if that's the case, when she traded Ammoricius to Bianca for the Athame, did she really believe that the Athame WITHOUT the taint, was an equal to the sword?  If she knew about the taint, then the Athame AND the nemfection together equals the Sword of Love, not just the Athame alone.

[Quantus]

I agree that Bianca wasn't the brightest star in the heavens.

That being said, we know that Leah desired the Athame to augment her power to fight their enemy.  We all assumed at the time she was referring to Summer, but now I wonder if she meant Nemesis and the outsiders.

To the best of my knowledge she never said "Enemy" (just confirmed its not in GP, SK, PG or GS), and the implication Id always gotten was the same as Mab's statement in DB, that Lea had Challenged her (Mab's) authority.  Fwiw Leah does very much consider Mab an Enemy, and vice versa, just a reliable Enemy with a good working relationship, a "Gadara". 

That being the case, did Leah know that the Athame was tainted?  And did she think she might be able to overcome the nemfection?

No, she did not know until later.  She stated as much pretty directly in GS during the graveyard conversation.

Again, if that's the case, when she traded Ammoricius to Bianca for the Athame, did she really believe that the Athame WITHOUT the taint, was an equal to the sword?  If she knew about the taint, then the Athame AND the nemfection together equals the Sword of Love, not just the Athame alone.

Yup, it formerly belonged to Morgan LaFey, and had gained Power through accumulated use/exposure:

2011 Naperville Signing
What is the Black Athame, and what is it’s relation to Medea’s Bodkin?

The Black Athame was Morgan La Fay’s athame.  That was the one that got traded around in Grave Peril… at the vampire costume party.  Well an Athame is the original knife that was used in magic, and while they aren’t necessarily magical themselves, if you involve them in enough really cool big things that are going on, they start gaining their own sort of power and their own sort of awareness.  Which is not to say they become intelligent or anything, but they become very extremely dangerous tools.  And that one was a very, very dangerous tool, on a level with Ammoracchius, which is why it got traded that way.  Medea’s Bodkin is another Athame that is far older, and is used more classically documented witches.  The ones who actually survived falls of several empires there –you still hear about them- Also a very bad news kind of implement, just so you know. 

[Rasins]

Yup, it formerly belonged to Morgan LaFey, and had gained Power through accumulated use/exposure:

So, she was intending on trading a Sword of the Cross, for the Athame.  What she got was the Athame + a taint.

Question is, did that make the Athame more, or less and equal to Ammoricius?

[Quantus]

So, she was intending on trading a Sword of the Cross, for the Athame.  What she got was the Athame + a taint.

Question is, did that make the Athame more, or less and equal to Ammoricius?

I dont think that really changes it's value calculation in any worthwhile way.  The need to trade things of equal value is fundamental but still subjective.  Since she did not know of the Taint it didnt figure into her calculations; and all bargains are about capitalizing on the difference between your own estimation of value and whomever you are bargaining with.  Had she known, it would have severely reduced the "value" of the athame to Lea, given what it cost her to Undo said taint.  Unless she knew of an actual Use for a tainted Item, or some other person that she might be able to trade it to at a profit. 

[LordDresden2]

I dont think that really changes it's value calculation in any worthwhile way.  The need to trade things of equal value is fundamental but still subjective. 

Exactly.  The Sidhe cannot knowingly lie, but they can spout falsehoods all day if they believe them.  Likewise, they have to make equal deals, within the bounds of their knowledge and understanding.  If Lea (for whatever deranged reason) believed that my ink pen was as valuable as a gold brick, she'd trade me the ink pen for the gold brick just fine.

[LordDresden2]

Yup, it formerly belonged to Morgan LaFey, and had gained Power through accumulated use/exposure:

2011 Naperville Signing
What is the Black Athame, and what is it’s relation to Medea’s Bodkin?

The Black Athame was Morgan La Fay’s athame.  That was the one that got traded around in Grave Peril… at the vampire costume party.  Well an Athame is the original knife that was used in magic, and while they aren’t necessarily magical themselves, if you involve them in enough really cool big things that are going on, they start gaining their own sort of power and their own sort of awareness.  Which is not to say they become intelligent or anything, but they become very extremely dangerous tools.  And that one was a very, very dangerous tool, on a level with Ammoracchius, which is why it got traded that way.  Medea’s Bodkin is another Athame that is far older, and is used more classically documented witches.  The ones who actually survived falls of several empires there –you still hear about them- Also a very bad news kind of implement, just so you know. 

Which makes me wonder just what badness Morgan le Fey was into that amplified her blade to such an extent, and how that badness affects Harry.

[kazimmoinuddin]

In the arryns stories, there were three weapons. A sword, dagger and spear. If the sword of the cross is Excalibur, I wonder if the athame is the dagger.

[Rasins]

Exactly.  The Sidhe cannot knowingly lie, but they can spout falsehoods all day if they believe them.  Likewise, they have to make equal deals, within the bounds of their knowledge and understanding.  If Lea (for whatever deranged reason) believed that my ink pen was as valuable as a gold brick, she'd trade me the ink pen for the gold brick just fine.

I dont think that really changes it's value calculation in any worthwhile way.  The need to trade things of equal value is fundamental but still subjective.  Since she did not know of the Taint it didnt figure into her calculations; and all bargains are about capitalizing on the difference between your own estimation of value and whomever you are bargaining with.  Had she known, it would have severely reduced the "value" of the athame to Lea, given what it cost her to Undo said taint.  Unless she knew of an actual Use for a tainted Item, or some other person that she might be able to trade it to at a profit.

Right, right.  Value is in the eye of the beholder.

Did Mab take the Athame in payment for curing Leah, or did she take it for some other reason?